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I think people delude themselves into thinking they're purchasing an SUV to transport a lot of stuff or to travel with kids, when in reality drivers nonetheless

I think people delude themselves into thinking they're purchasing an SUV to transport a lot of stuff or to travel with kids, when in reality drivers nonetheless drive alone. Anecdotally, as I've said, SUVs have simply replaced Sedans as the "default" car on the road. And as you may know, the "default" car in America has a single driver. > In any case, one we get non-luxury electric SUVs the point will largely be moot. I disagree on the basis of the positive reinforcement cycle causing people to buy larger cars in the first place. From speaking to other drivers and listening to them as they think out their thought process when deciding what new car to buy, the #1 reason people want to drive an SUV is safety (which may include the point you made about performance in snow). Not that I have anything against safety itself, but you must see the arms race that can occur from seeking safety in a larger vehicle. When other people are driving larger vehicles around you, you may feel endangered and thus buy a larger car yourself. That causes other drivers to buy larger cars in turn. No one can have "the biggest car". They only keep getting bigger. So this notion that electric SUVs are going to save us is moot, I believe. People will still clamor for larger (now-electric) SUVs for their safety, reducing their eMPG (electric-equivalent MPG).

neutronicus 9y ago
My fiancee inherited an SUV when her parents moved back to their country of origin, and it really is much better than my compact sedan for moving furniture.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  A U-Haul is even better for moving furniture, and is cheap & easy to rent occasionally. Optimize for the common case, not the rare.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  My utility trailer is far better than your SUV for hauling furniture, appliances, mulch, etc. And for the 363 days of the year that I'm not hauling anything needing that much capacity, my economy car gets far better fuel economy than your SUV while also being safer to drive because it's smaller, faster, and more agile, and doesn't roll over so easily so I can avoid accidents better.
scottLobster 9y ago
Well sure SUVs, even electric ones will never be the most efficient forms of transportation. But if most or all of that energy comes from carbon neutral sources that relative inefficiency doesn't hurt all that much. And I don't see the safety slope going much further than Vans/Pickups/SUVs. Are people going to start demanding de-militarized MRAPs for safety purposes? I doubt it. The safety cycle you describe is driven by the original users of the vehicles. Ex: Someone buys an SUV because they do a lot of kayaking/camping. That person gets in an accient with a smaller car and totals said smaller car while the SUV has a few dents in the bumper. Some people see this on the news, freak out and buy SUVs so now all things are equal. End of cycle. The kayaker doesn't buy another, bigger SUV, or upgrade to an 18 wheeler just to compete.
camiller 9y ago
I used to drive a four door sedan(Chevy Impala) and was perfectly happy with it (My then 17 year old daughter totaled it, going up against another Impala). When the time came to find it's replacement I had to meet a certain pragmatic requirement. My wife has now had six back surgeries. When her mini-van needed to be in the shop for a few days we realized that she has a substantial amount of difficulty getting out of even a large car like my Impala. We needed a second vehicle that she could basically enter/exit easily. I now drive a small'ish SUV (Kia Sorento). My Impala was probably more sturdily built, I certainly didn't feel un-safe in it.
yourapostasy 9y ago
> I think people delude themselves into thinking they're purchasing an SUV to...travel with kids... There has been a big change in the US that pushed many families to select SUV's and bigger cars in general: child seats became mandatory. These were rare during the 70's and earlier. They take up quite a lot of space when rear-facing (and if you use them strictly according to guidelines, they will be installed rear-facing for a very big part of their service life). During the 70's it wasn't unusual to see families cramming groceries and shopping items in between where their children sat in the car, and anywhere else the items would fit, for that matter; you can't do that any longer, and in fact higher child safety awareness in cars even discourages that practice because of the possibility those items become missiles during an accident. Nor is this practice recommended for where the adults sit. So a lot of families end up going with SUV's or minivans (why station wagons are not picked is another tragic story), to have enough to safely carry passengers, shopping, and sports/activity gear. So yes, you can advocate for smaller cars, but you should be up front about the trade-off. Either more trips are made, wasting time, money and fuel, and/or safety is compromised, and/or lifestyles are drastically altered. To sell these compromises, you have to offer a benefit more compelling than "catastrophic outcome that doesn't affect you now might be averted". I'm not saying we shouldn't adopt small cars (I bike most days myself), I'm laying out the reality on the ground to convince the mass of developed world citizens to adopt them.

neutronicus 9y ago

My fiancee inherited an SUV when her parents moved back to their country of origin, and it really is much better than my compact sedan for moving furniture.

bryanlarsen 9y ago
A U-Haul is even better for moving furniture, and is cheap & easy to rent occasionally. Optimize for the common case, not the rare.
gorkonsine 9y ago
My utility trailer is far better than your SUV for hauling furniture, appliances, mulch, etc. And for the 363 days of the year that I'm not hauling anything needing that much capacity, my economy car gets far better fuel economy than your SUV while also being safer to drive because it's smaller, faster, and more agile, and doesn't roll over so easily so I can avoid accidents better.

scottLobster 9y ago

Well sure SUVs, even electric ones will never be the most efficient forms of transportation. But if most or all of that energy comes from carbon neutral sources that relative inefficiency doesn't hurt all that much. And I don't see the safety slope going much further than Vans/Pickups/SUVs. Are people going to start demanding de-militarized MRAPs for safety purposes? I doubt it. The safety cycle you describe is driven by the original users of the vehicles. Ex: Someone buys an SUV because they do a lot of kayaking/camping. That person gets in an accient with a smaller car and totals said smaller car while the SUV has a few dents in the bumper. Some people see this on the news, freak out and buy SUVs so now all things are equal. End of cycle. The kayaker doesn't buy another, bigger SUV, or upgrade to an 18 wheeler just to compete.

camiller 9y ago

I used to drive a four door sedan(Chevy Impala) and was perfectly happy with it (My then 17 year old daughter totaled it, going up against another Impala). When the time came to find it's replacement I had to meet a certain pragmatic requirement. My wife has now had six back surgeries. When her mini-van needed to be in the shop for a few days we realized that she has a substantial amount of difficulty getting out of even a large car like my Impala. We needed a second vehicle that she could basically enter/exit easily. I now drive a small'ish SUV (Kia Sorento). My Impala was probably more sturdily built, I certainly didn't feel un-safe in it.

yourapostasy 9y ago

> I think people delude themselves into thinking they're purchasing an SUV to...travel with kids... There has been a big change in the US that pushed many families to select SUV's and bigger cars in general: child seats became mandatory. These were rare during the 70's and earlier. They take up quite a lot of space when rear-facing (and if you use them strictly according to guidelines, they will be installed rear-facing for a very big part of their service life). During the 70's it wasn't unusual to see families cramming groceries and shopping items in between where their children sat in the car, and anywhere else the items would fit, for that matter; you can't do that any longer, and in fact higher child safety awareness in cars even discourages that practice because of the possibility those items become missiles during an accident. Nor is this practice recommended for where the adults sit. So a lot of families end up going with SUV's or minivans (why station wagons are not picked is another tragic story), to have enough to safely carry passengers, shopping, and sports/activity gear. So yes, you can advocate for smaller cars, but you should be up front about the trade-off. Either more trips are made, wasting time, money and fuel, and/or safety is compromised, and/or lifestyles are drastically altered. To sell these compromises, you have to offer a benefit more compelling than "catastrophic outcome that doesn't affect you now might be averted". I'm not saying we shouldn't adopt small cars (I bike most days myself), I'm laying out the reality on the ground to convince the mass of developed world citizens to adopt them.