5 ms·

Rising costs of living are pricing people out of the system. You can't have children, a home, a vehicle, access to education, health care, recreation, and arti

Rising costs of living are pricing people out of the system. You can't have children, a home, a vehicle, access to education, health care, recreation, and artistic pursuits. Pick two or three, and maybe in the future you might be able to acquire others. Oh and don't pick children, since you'll have to provide those to your child as well, some of them immediately.

projectramo 9y ago
I wonder if self driving vehicles will make this better (or worse)
- anotheryou 9y ago
  Public transport will always remain cheaper. Maybe the last mile will become shorter though, but even here I doubt there is money for segway shuttles to the trainstation, let alone cars. But in a city without cars (apart from service and transportation of bigger goods) maybe there could be money for it.
- sgslo 9y ago
  Worse, I suspect. 3 million commercial truckers in the US, where at least some portion of them owning some amount of schooling from a community college[1]. They fit right into this bucket. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h...
  - zdragnar 9y ago
    Not to mention that many are owner-operators, meaning they own the truck itself. This may slow the adoption of self-driving trucking for smaller companies (many larger companies do own the truck), but it will hurt the drivers that much more when it happens.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Namrog84 9y ago
  I always figured if I had (access to) a self driving car I'd live further out of the city because I could be on a laptop or even sleep for part of the commute. Thus have more affordable housing. And while those are technically possible on public transportation (bus) . I don't want to sleep on a bus. Especially if I am by myself with a laptop bag. And the times it takes to wait for bus and walk to/from makes it unappealing. But a private pod is completely different for my scenario
  - projectramo 9y ago
    This is exactly the scenario(s) I had in mind when I made the statement, but it seems others have very different opinions.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Worse for all. When we render millions of people unemployed, where are people going to go?
aaron-lebo 9y ago
This is semi-localized. You can have all of that on 40k. Delaying kids is wise for pretty much everyone, though.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  This is semi-localized. You can have all of that on 40k Depending on where you are, this is likely with a really long commute. I think there's some study somewhere that found long commutes to be one of the biggest sources of stress in the US. Delaying kids is wise for pretty much everyone, though. Delaying childbirth increases the incidence of birth defects. Also, it may be that sleep deprivation later in life is worse for the parents, with regards to dementia. People in their 20's have much better physical and energy resources for dealing with children. In the old days, younger people lived in closer proximity to older people who could relay their experience, so we had the best of both worlds for child-rearing. I suspect that much of the malaise of modern life is actually based on isolation and the breakdown of community interrupting the transmission of incidental knowledge. Now we have developed an online substitute which has some dramatic disadvantages. Our culture is becoming coarser and bereft of its finer points and subtler knowledge. Much of the population of this website will knee-jerk against this observation, even while extolling the power and value of such knowledge giving certain companies like Apple and various startups their special competitive advantage. In any case, a society which artificially forces the delay of childbirth for its poorer citizens might seem dystopian to many. Some would argue that letting market forces determine this is far better than government edicts. What we have now is a society that subjects most everyone to market forces with regards to reproductive decisions, except for the very poorest and most disconnected with cultures of productivity. Weird when you think about it that way.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    Well I'm 20 minutes from Downtown and 2 from light rail. Don't own a house, though it'd be cheaper to do so versus renting. You've got a good point about childbirth. I was thinking a bit too much of people who have 3 kids by 25, which seems to put lots of stress on them and their kids.
notadoc 9y ago
> Rising costs of living are pricing people out of the system. Officially, inflation is only 2% a year https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=pct_12mths https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=p... I find CPI to be genuinely curious basket. Where are they finding housing, college, and health care that's only going up 2% a year? Certainly not the west coast where 10-20% annual increases are routine.
- bufordsharkley 9y ago
  Here's an interesting article speculating on reasons why policy-makers have an inherent incentive to deny that inflation is taking place (with special note on how it relates to housing costs): http://www.georgistjournal.org/2012/09/21/denying-inflation-who-why-and-how/ http://www.georgistjournal.org/2012/09/21/denying-inflation-...
- vkou 9y ago
  If you're living in a hot metro area, your CoL will rise much faster then 2% a year. Your wages will not. However, there are a lot more people living in Nowhereville, Middle America, where rents are not going through the roof. There aren't any jobs there, but that's not reflected in the CoL index.
  - LMYahooTFY 9y ago
    This is actually very false... https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....
    - vkou 9y ago
      I said hot metro area. I'm talking about NYC and San Francisco, not Fresno.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  We're basically re-living 1880-1900. Consolidation and automation is driving the power of rentier class people. CPI is funny about certain things... it weighs rents highly which skews things as there's an effective price floor through the "prevailing rents" that drive housing subsidy.
s73ver 9y ago
Not everyone reliably gets to have the choice on children, especially with red states doing everything they can do deny access to safe abortions.

projectramo 9y ago

I wonder if self driving vehicles will make this better (or worse)

anotheryou 9y ago
Public transport will always remain cheaper. Maybe the last mile will become shorter though, but even here I doubt there is money for segway shuttles to the trainstation, let alone cars. But in a city without cars (apart from service and transportation of bigger goods) maybe there could be money for it.
sgslo 9y ago
Worse, I suspect. 3 million commercial truckers in the US, where at least some portion of them owning some amount of schooling from a community college[1]. They fit right into this bucket. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm#tab-1 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h...
- zdragnar 9y ago
  Not to mention that many are owner-operators, meaning they own the truck itself. This may slow the adoption of self-driving trucking for smaller companies (many larger companies do own the truck), but it will hurt the drivers that much more when it happens.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Namrog84 9y ago
I always figured if I had (access to) a self driving car I'd live further out of the city because I could be on a laptop or even sleep for part of the commute. Thus have more affordable housing. And while those are technically possible on public transportation (bus) . I don't want to sleep on a bus. Especially if I am by myself with a laptop bag. And the times it takes to wait for bus and walk to/from makes it unappealing. But a private pod is completely different for my scenario
- projectramo 9y ago
  This is exactly the scenario(s) I had in mind when I made the statement, but it seems others have very different opinions.
Spooky23 9y ago
Worse for all. When we render millions of people unemployed, where are people going to go?

aaron-lebo 9y ago

This is semi-localized. You can have all of that on 40k. Delaying kids is wise for pretty much everyone, though.

stcredzero 9y ago
This is semi-localized. You can have all of that on 40k Depending on where you are, this is likely with a really long commute. I think there's some study somewhere that found long commutes to be one of the biggest sources of stress in the US. Delaying kids is wise for pretty much everyone, though. Delaying childbirth increases the incidence of birth defects. Also, it may be that sleep deprivation later in life is worse for the parents, with regards to dementia. People in their 20's have much better physical and energy resources for dealing with children. In the old days, younger people lived in closer proximity to older people who could relay their experience, so we had the best of both worlds for child-rearing. I suspect that much of the malaise of modern life is actually based on isolation and the breakdown of community interrupting the transmission of incidental knowledge. Now we have developed an online substitute which has some dramatic disadvantages. Our culture is becoming coarser and bereft of its finer points and subtler knowledge. Much of the population of this website will knee-jerk against this observation, even while extolling the power and value of such knowledge giving certain companies like Apple and various startups their special competitive advantage. In any case, a society which artificially forces the delay of childbirth for its poorer citizens might seem dystopian to many. Some would argue that letting market forces determine this is far better than government edicts. What we have now is a society that subjects most everyone to market forces with regards to reproductive decisions, except for the very poorest and most disconnected with cultures of productivity. Weird when you think about it that way.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Well I'm 20 minutes from Downtown and 2 from light rail. Don't own a house, though it'd be cheaper to do so versus renting. You've got a good point about childbirth. I was thinking a bit too much of people who have 3 kids by 25, which seems to put lots of stress on them and their kids.

notadoc 9y ago

> Rising costs of living are pricing people out of the system. Officially, inflation is only 2% a year https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=pct_12mths https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUUR0000SA0L1E?output_view=p... I find CPI to be genuinely curious basket. Where are they finding housing, college, and health care that's only going up 2% a year? Certainly not the west coast where 10-20% annual increases are routine.

bufordsharkley 9y ago
Here's an interesting article speculating on reasons why policy-makers have an inherent incentive to deny that inflation is taking place (with special note on how it relates to housing costs): http://www.georgistjournal.org/2012/09/21/denying-inflation-who-why-and-how/ http://www.georgistjournal.org/2012/09/21/denying-inflation-...
vkou 9y ago
If you're living in a hot metro area, your CoL will rise much faster then 2% a year. Your wages will not. However, there are a lot more people living in Nowhereville, Middle America, where rents are not going through the roof. There aren't any jobs there, but that's not reflected in the CoL index.
- LMYahooTFY 9y ago
  This is actually very false... https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....
  - vkou 9y ago
    I said hot metro area. I'm talking about NYC and San Francisco, not Fresno.
Spooky23 9y ago
We're basically re-living 1880-1900. Consolidation and automation is driving the power of rentier class people. CPI is funny about certain things... it weighs rents highly which skews things as there's an effective price floor through the "prevailing rents" that drive housing subsidy.

s73ver 9y ago

Not everyone reliably gets to have the choice on children, especially with red states doing everything they can do deny access to safe abortions.