6 ms·

The right to repair is a good step, but I think the better approach to fight short product lifespans would be much longer and mandatory guarantees on products.

The right to repair is a good step, but I think the better approach to fight short product lifespans would be much longer and mandatory guarantees on products. A mandatory 5-year guarantee on laptops and 10 years on washing machines or dryers doesn't sound unreasonably.

wyager 9y ago
The way this would work is that laptop prices would be massively inflated to pay for the expected multiple repairs that 90% of consumers wouldn't even want, given the choice. I buy a new laptop every two years or so; I shouldn't be forced to subsidize people on a slower upgrade cycle.
- skrause 9y ago
  Or to stay competitive on price the manufacturers will try to build longer lasting products instead of just rising prices to pay for repairs.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  What if it meant these laptops had better second-hand value? (Like Macs do)
agumonkey 9y ago
Brands would probably start by turning the process into some kind of hell. We're partly responsible for the status of things, too many consumers aim for cute and thin instead of modular. Today we could have some form of standard form factors that allows to swap parts and make opening machines easy.
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  No one disputes that the sellers would prefer to make more profit. But we don't live in an anarcho-capitalist society (yet). The article is about the EU preparing legislation that would require this sort of guarantee. A functioning government would not allow them to turn the process into a hellish ordeal.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    I find this notion naive. It's been the case forever. It's still hard to get decent phone support (meanwhile they're always right there if you ask to stop your membership). The issue is that there's no efficient backpressure mechanism in place when these systems are in place. People just waste time, money and then half of them surrender because no one listens or it's worthless to wait for a proper solution.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      I agree. Any ideas on how to create some additional forms of backpressure?
      - agumonkey 9y ago
        Not really, I haven't thought about this particularly yet. It should be the normal function of a political structure. IMO I'd be more willing to try a flatter system where users, forming a similar emotional class, could share and help themselves in case of need. So promoting this behavior culturally should be done, and maybe enough.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      I never had trouble getting things replaced under the Swedish 2-year repair law.
pmlnr 9y ago
ThinkPads, Elitebooks, Latitudes already fall under the category where you can extend the - normally 3 years warranty - to 5, but they are significantly more expensive than a laptop in [random local PC store]. The first step would be to make people understand that the shiny new is most probably nothing better - not in power, keyboard, etc - than a 3-4 years old business rugged one (there are always exceptions, we're talking generic category here), so just go and get a used, perfectly functioniong business tank instead.
- runeks 9y ago
  > ThinkPads, Elitebooks, Latitudes already fall under the category where you can extend the - normally 3 years warranty - to 5 [..] I think this is a great solution. I don't see the purpose of preventing people from purchasing the laptop with a 3-year warranty by mandating a 5-year warranty. Why not just let the people who prefer the 5-year warranty pay for it?
  - baq 9y ago
    Because this isn't about individuals. It's all about the whole society and the environment it's in. See also tragedy of the commons.
- Jach 9y ago
  Yup. But sometimes sourcing an old thing at a good price is hard. It's further made difficult by misguided environmentalism like e.g. cash for clunkers that end up removing a ton of functioning old stuff from the market and forcing extra manufacture and purchase of new stuff.

wyager 9y ago

The way this would work is that laptop prices would be massively inflated to pay for the expected multiple repairs that 90% of consumers wouldn't even want, given the choice. I buy a new laptop every two years or so; I shouldn't be forced to subsidize people on a slower upgrade cycle.

skrause 9y ago
Or to stay competitive on price the manufacturers will try to build longer lasting products instead of just rising prices to pay for repairs.
kalleboo 9y ago
What if it meant these laptops had better second-hand value? (Like Macs do)

agumonkey 9y ago

Brands would probably start by turning the process into some kind of hell. We're partly responsible for the status of things, too many consumers aim for cute and thin instead of modular. Today we could have some form of standard form factors that allows to swap parts and make opening machines easy.

LeifCarrotson 9y ago
No one disputes that the sellers would prefer to make more profit. But we don't live in an anarcho-capitalist society (yet). The article is about the EU preparing legislation that would require this sort of guarantee. A functioning government would not allow them to turn the process into a hellish ordeal.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  I find this notion naive. It's been the case forever. It's still hard to get decent phone support (meanwhile they're always right there if you ask to stop your membership). The issue is that there's no efficient backpressure mechanism in place when these systems are in place. People just waste time, money and then half of them surrender because no one listens or it's worthless to wait for a proper solution.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    I agree. Any ideas on how to create some additional forms of backpressure?
    - agumonkey 9y ago
      Not really, I haven't thought about this particularly yet. It should be the normal function of a political structure. IMO I'd be more willing to try a flatter system where users, forming a similar emotional class, could share and help themselves in case of need. So promoting this behavior culturally should be done, and maybe enough.
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    I never had trouble getting things replaced under the Swedish 2-year repair law.

pmlnr 9y ago

ThinkPads, Elitebooks, Latitudes already fall under the category where you can extend the - normally 3 years warranty - to 5, but they are significantly more expensive than a laptop in [random local PC store]. The first step would be to make people understand that the shiny new is most probably nothing better - not in power, keyboard, etc - than a 3-4 years old business rugged one (there are always exceptions, we're talking generic category here), so just go and get a used, perfectly functioniong business tank instead.

runeks 9y ago
> ThinkPads, Elitebooks, Latitudes already fall under the category where you can extend the - normally 3 years warranty - to 5 [..] I think this is a great solution. I don't see the purpose of preventing people from purchasing the laptop with a 3-year warranty by mandating a 5-year warranty. Why not just let the people who prefer the 5-year warranty pay for it?
- baq 9y ago
  Because this isn't about individuals. It's all about the whole society and the environment it's in. See also tragedy of the commons.
Jach 9y ago
Yup. But sometimes sourcing an old thing at a good price is hard. It's further made difficult by misguided environmentalism like e.g. cash for clunkers that end up removing a ton of functioning old stuff from the market and forcing extra manufacture and purchase of new stuff.