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You're totally correct. But I never wanted to. I do love technology and certainly try not to ignorant of current and future technologies. I respect the art of t
by techer 9y ago
You're totally correct. But I never wanted to. I do love technology and certainly try not to ignorant of current and future technologies. I respect the art of the programmer. But to be slightly rude just to make a point: an average or above average coder is a commodity. In theory many many people could do your job. But a great manager is not a commodity. They are highly prized and compensated. They can break down barriers and fight fight fight.
You are right not to be a burden in the conversation. You need to kill your Ego - talking endless confusing bullshit to make yourself seem important is a nightmare. But my MD could be accused of the same the way he had to realign my priorities with that of the company.
But when you understand that some of the people on the board of the company I worked for never even use a computer, a bridge is necessary.
- greggman 9y agoYou compared great managers to average coders. My experience with managers is like many people's. The "average" manager is pretty bad. The average coder is also pretty bad. Both the average manager and the average coder can be replaced pretty easily. The great manager and great coder can not. I can only speak for the programmer side of that though having been involved in interviewing and seeing how hard it is to find people to pass the simplest of questions. But, given my experience with managers I suspect it's just has hard to hire great managers.
- techer 9y agoI think it's easier to find a great coder than a great manager. I could be wrong and totally appreciate your distinction. Edit- and I say that having worked with great coders but not many, if no great managers
- kpil 9y agoHm, being a bad manager is more visible, and even a good manager will attract more criticism. A mediocre developer can hide behind the team or other circumstances that can be more or less hard to evaluate.
- wil421 9y agoThe same can be said of bad managers hiding behind a good team of direct reports. We've all had the bad manager who the owners or higher ups loved to death yet everyone on the team can tell they are incompetent. I'm not talking about the boss you hate but the truly incompentant ones. The place I work now doesn't really care about competence only a body filling a vacancy. Maybe it's time to find a new job...I digress.
- dvirsky 9y agoI've worked with both, and let's agree that they are about equally hard to find, or more precisely hard to hire. To the untrained, though, above average coders and managers may appear great. But only once you've met an actual great one, you can really have perspective.
- akie 9y agoI mean, almost by definition and in ANY profession, most people will be average and good people will be scarce. If everyone was good, then everyone would be average and only the outstanding ones would be good. So, I respectfully disagree. I think it's as hard to find good coders as it is to find good managers, good opera singers, or good baby sitters.
- StavrosK 9y ago> an average or above average coder is a commodity. In theory many many people could do your job. But a great manager is not a commodity. I generally agree with greggman here, in the "average vs great" distinction. However, this also reeks of "my job is more important than your job" bias. Everyone is a commodity (and jobs are too). It's just about how hard it is to find someone to replace them.
- techer 9y agoSorry it sounds like that. Especially at HN. The coders are the most important. No doubt. But if you honestly think that all will be solved by having technical people in most positions, then that goes against my experience unless you are a pure technology company, started by technologists. The company I worked for morphed into a juggernaut from retail beginnings. So the company was staffed with people so technically illiterate that it was amazing anything ever got done. There should be a balance in everything. And generalists are sometimes just as important as specialists.
- StavrosK 9y ago> But if you honestly think that all will be solved by having technical people in most positions That's not what I said, though. I said that, if your job is to know things about the product, it helps if you are somewhat technical.
- kpil 9y agoI think it's the individual that matters. An intelligent, the right amount of humble, responsible, and motivated person that is broad enough to grasp the bigger picture while understanding enough of details, and is interested in managing other people will do well as a manager, regardless of background.
- omginternets 9y ago>You're totally correct. But I never wanted to. We don't care why you can't code. We care that you can't, and therefore are unable to understand the work of people who do. Again: the reason for your technical incompetence is not the issue. We're not passing a moral judgement on your inability to code. We're passing a professional judgement to the effect of "you are unable to understand our work and therefore cannot make sound judgements about it". The fact that you confuse these two things is a succinct example of everything that is wrong with non-technical management.