4 ms·

I cannot agree. >It'll exist as long as there are entities with conflicting interests. I meet people whose interests conflict with mine on almost a daily basi

I cannot agree. >It'll exist as long as there are entities with conflicting interests. I meet people whose interests conflict with mine on almost a daily basis. It's a pretty basic part of social interaction to be able to move past those conflicts without violence. I cannot see how war is unavoidable in that sense. >If nobody is willing to use violence This is not the same as working to end war. Self-defence can still be justified without dragging war into it. That argument reminds me of the kind of points brought against conscientious objectors who didn't participate in the draft - not all violence is equal.

rayiner 9y ago
> I meet people whose interests conflict with mine on almost a daily basis. It's a pretty basic part of social interaction to be able to move past those conflicts without violence. I cannot see how war is unavoidable in that sense. The violence hasn't been eliminated, it's just been pushed one level higher. There is a state that uses violence to enforce the results of artificial dispute resolution mechanisms.
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  I have very amicable interactions with the people who have their own firm grounding. They don't like people and cooperation because the state enforces shit, they go the proverbial extra mile to say the least. With others, non-violence indeed is hardly an achievement considering all the sophistry to wade through; violence is, other than a form of coercion, a method of censorship, and we often have much "better" ways to either shut people up, or let them talk and insulate ourselves. Big whoop, yay for civilization. But I still don't accept that as a human feature, it's a potential human dysfunction. Those who say it has to be that way are simply saying they cannot even imagine the life I live and the people I see for decades, and that's even before the pseudo-scientific explanations like "it's genetic". Let's grant that it "is genetic", whatever that means: we can still compete by being the funniest, friendliest, smartest, bravest, the best lovers and parents and friends and whatever would impress a partner. There's your competition. Like, in that circle of friends or colleagues, where nobody gets trampled on? The witty person gets to talk a bit more than the dork, that's it. The pretty person gets looked at more than the ugly person. But nobody glares at the dork like "why are you even talking", nobody tells the ugly person to gtfo. You'd still have competition -- but no, you don't have humans tearing each others to shreds and making castes because their parents didn't (or couldn't!) allow them to develop a full blown and trusting personality so that they are always afraid and assume so is everybody else.
phkahler 9y ago
There are over 7 billion other people who are not you or your friends.

rayiner 9y ago

> I meet people whose interests conflict with mine on almost a daily basis. It's a pretty basic part of social interaction to be able to move past those conflicts without violence. I cannot see how war is unavoidable in that sense. The violence hasn't been eliminated, it's just been pushed one level higher. There is a state that uses violence to enforce the results of artificial dispute resolution mechanisms.

thinkfurther 9y ago
I have very amicable interactions with the people who have their own firm grounding. They don't like people and cooperation because the state enforces shit, they go the proverbial extra mile to say the least. With others, non-violence indeed is hardly an achievement considering all the sophistry to wade through; violence is, other than a form of coercion, a method of censorship, and we often have much "better" ways to either shut people up, or let them talk and insulate ourselves. Big whoop, yay for civilization. But I still don't accept that as a human feature, it's a potential human dysfunction. Those who say it has to be that way are simply saying they cannot even imagine the life I live and the people I see for decades, and that's even before the pseudo-scientific explanations like "it's genetic". Let's grant that it "is genetic", whatever that means: we can still compete by being the funniest, friendliest, smartest, bravest, the best lovers and parents and friends and whatever would impress a partner. There's your competition. Like, in that circle of friends or colleagues, where nobody gets trampled on? The witty person gets to talk a bit more than the dork, that's it. The pretty person gets looked at more than the ugly person. But nobody glares at the dork like "why are you even talking", nobody tells the ugly person to gtfo. You'd still have competition -- but no, you don't have humans tearing each others to shreds and making castes because their parents didn't (or couldn't!) allow them to develop a full blown and trusting personality so that they are always afraid and assume so is everybody else.

phkahler 9y ago

There are over 7 billion other people who are not you or your friends.