4 ms·

Organised crime is bad for public health

by nsgi 9y ago

sp332 9y ago
On balance it's still a win. Alcoholism kills a lot of people.
- koolba 9y ago
  Depends on what you're measuring. If it's pure death rates sure but throw in quality of life and it's not as clear cut. I personally wouldn't want to live in a world where I can't enjoy a glass of whiskey.
  - sp332 9y ago
    That's not going to offset fetal alcohol syndrome or people raised by drunk parents or recovered alcoholics living with health issues for the rest of their lives.
    - koolba 9y ago
      You can make the same arguments about salty foods (hypertension), fatty foods (heart disease), sugary foods (diabetes), premarital sex (STDs), and just about anything else that people consume or partake in. If you believe in personal responsibility then you're okay with taking some bad with the good.
      - sp332 9y ago
        What does personal responsibility have to do with fetal alcohol syndrome or kids raised badly? And how can you believe in personal responsibly when public health can change so drastically in response to policy changes?
        koolba 9y ago
        > What does personal responsibility have to do with fetal alcohol syndrome or kids raised badly? Both are the result of negligence of their parents. It may not be pleasant to lump that together under personal responsibility but that's the root of the problem and addressing it is the real solution. A mother that drinks alcohol while pregnant is at fault for the harm that comes to her child. It's not society's fault, it's hers and indirectly her spouse's fault for allowing that to happen. > And how can you believe in personal responsibly when public health can change so drastically in response to policy changes? The fundamental disagreement is that I believe people are capable of good on their own and should not be baby sat by a nanny state. I'm willing to accept some of the adverse consequences of people making their own choices in exchange for the freedom and quality of life it brings.
        sp332 9y ago
        But what good is responsibility? The point is this shouldn't happen in the first place. There's no way someone can make up for something bad they did in the past. Assigning blame after the fact seems hollow to me. It's a tradeoff. "If men were angels no government would be necessary." Personal responsibility might be an ideal but it can't be an absolute. Trading lives for a "glass of whiskey" is morally bankrupt.
        koolba 9y ago
        I'm not dealing in anyones lives but my own as nobody is getting hurt by my personal enjoyment of a glass of whiskey. It sounds like you think that either you or others are incapable of such self control and thus nobody should be able to enjoy them. I put such lack of faith in humanity as itself being morally bankrupt.

Organised crime is bad for public health

by nsgi 9y ago

Organised crime is bad for public health

sp332 9y ago

On balance it's still a win. Alcoholism kills a lot of people.

koolba 9y ago
Depends on what you're measuring. If it's pure death rates sure but throw in quality of life and it's not as clear cut. I personally wouldn't want to live in a world where I can't enjoy a glass of whiskey.
- sp332 9y ago
  That's not going to offset fetal alcohol syndrome or people raised by drunk parents or recovered alcoholics living with health issues for the rest of their lives.
  - koolba 9y ago
    You can make the same arguments about salty foods (hypertension), fatty foods (heart disease), sugary foods (diabetes), premarital sex (STDs), and just about anything else that people consume or partake in. If you believe in personal responsibility then you're okay with taking some bad with the good.
    - sp332 9y ago
      What does personal responsibility have to do with fetal alcohol syndrome or kids raised badly? And how can you believe in personal responsibly when public health can change so drastically in response to policy changes?
      - koolba 9y ago
        > What does personal responsibility have to do with fetal alcohol syndrome or kids raised badly? Both are the result of negligence of their parents. It may not be pleasant to lump that together under personal responsibility but that's the root of the problem and addressing it is the real solution. A mother that drinks alcohol while pregnant is at fault for the harm that comes to her child. It's not society's fault, it's hers and indirectly her spouse's fault for allowing that to happen. > And how can you believe in personal responsibly when public health can change so drastically in response to policy changes? The fundamental disagreement is that I believe people are capable of good on their own and should not be baby sat by a nanny state. I'm willing to accept some of the adverse consequences of people making their own choices in exchange for the freedom and quality of life it brings.
        sp332 9y ago
        But what good is responsibility? The point is this shouldn't happen in the first place. There's no way someone can make up for something bad they did in the past. Assigning blame after the fact seems hollow to me. It's a tradeoff. "If men were angels no government would be necessary." Personal responsibility might be an ideal but it can't be an absolute. Trading lives for a "glass of whiskey" is morally bankrupt.
        koolba 9y ago
        I'm not dealing in anyones lives but my own as nobody is getting hurt by my personal enjoyment of a glass of whiskey. It sounds like you think that either you or others are incapable of such self control and thus nobody should be able to enjoy them. I put such lack of faith in humanity as itself being morally bankrupt.