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I wouldn't be so quick to credit the UN with this. I would say it's more likely that between mutually assured destruction upon major powers, and the United Stat

I wouldn't be so quick to credit the UN with this. I would say it's more likely that between mutually assured destruction upon major powers, and the United States' role as global peacekeeper and Don't Do Something Crazy or We Will Bomb You mantra we've reached a state of world peace. Not because of the UN.

thg 9y ago
It's more like "play by our rules and do what we tell you or we will bomb you". The US isn't the global peacekeeper, the US is the main instigator for wars. Planting and supporting dictators and authoritarian regimes who are then painted as "the enemy" when they no longer want to be the pets of the US. History is written by the winners, I guess, and all that pro-US propaganda that's so proliferate in the entire western world seems to be working really good. Did you know that the US supported Hitler at first and big US corporations (I.T.T., General Motors, DuPont, Standard Oil of New Jersey, Davis Oil Co., and the Chase National Bank) all continued trading with Germany during the war because there was money in it and the US politicians didn't want to give those big corporations a big sad? The US is the "global peacekeeper" only when the target country they're invading doesn't want to go along with whatever the US wants. The UN is a whole lot more global peacekeeper than the US will ever be.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  Believe what you want, but the Pax Americana is real and is empirically the most peaceful time in world history. It is partly due to nuclear deterrents and partly due to the US maintaining a massive military presence in hot spots (Korea, South China Sea, Taiwan, Persian/Arab Gulf, Eastern Europe). Yes, it is often coercive and we have certainly supported unsavory regimes. It is worth considering what the alternatives to those regimes are. In Saudi Arabia, for instance, the House of Saud is actually a moderating force keeping the Wahhabist mullahs from taking over completely. Liberal democracy will not work everywhere today, as our horribly misguided experiment in Iraq has demonstrated. I recommend Fareed Zakaria's The Future of Freedom for a discussion of the problem, but a very short summary is that you cannot have a functioning democracy without substantial economic development (natural resource money does NOT count for many reasons) and a middle class that feels highly invested in stability, growth, and trade. The US government never supported Hitler. America is a free country so of course there were many private individuals and companies who did. No different than how Western academia was extremely fond of the Soviets until the 1950s. The US actually provided massive aid to the allies before entering the war, through the lend lease program among others. The fact is that it wasn't clear at the time that it was in the United State's interests to oppose Hitler. It was a far away problem, there was a strong isolationist mood in the US, and even the Brits were trying their hand at coexisting with him.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    Fine and dandy, if you live and work in the US.
    - marcoperaza 9y ago
      If you live just about anywhere. If you could pick a time to be a human but not know where you'd be born, the Pax Americana is your best choice by far.
      - thinkfurther 9y ago
        Whenever I way variations of this meme (I wouldn't call it a thought) I weigh it and find it way too light. For starters you're comparing different times, which is not even wrong, as they say. But actually the alternative to behaving as an aggressor is to behave "more decently" according to various standards, certainly differently; and that would not deter from any actual peacekeeping intentions and actions, to the contrary. Compare to the hypothetical present times without sociopaths in power and conformists making excuses for them. And explain how "Pax Americana" and the foolhardy meddling in the Middle East go together. More like "peaceful munching sounds made by the wallets of some peeps, called FELLOW AMERICANS!!1 when convenient or cute, as an extraction device, not one one of them ever considering themselves as such". There is no peace. There are people holding their ears, and there are people who will not unsee, ever. There's people who made their beds but pretend they will never have to sleep in them. But we cannot hide our own crimes behind those of others, ignorance does not protect from the consequences, lack of empathy does not protect from punishment. There is not a single history that is being written, what is swept under the rug today will be uncovered tomorrow, if there's ever going to be a day deserving the name.
        throwanem 9y ago
        > you're comparing different times > Compare to the hypothetical It's invalid to compare the present with the past, but valid to compare the present with a present that never was?

thg 9y ago

It's more like "play by our rules and do what we tell you or we will bomb you". The US isn't the global peacekeeper, the US is the main instigator for wars. Planting and supporting dictators and authoritarian regimes who are then painted as "the enemy" when they no longer want to be the pets of the US. History is written by the winners, I guess, and all that pro-US propaganda that's so proliferate in the entire western world seems to be working really good. Did you know that the US supported Hitler at first and big US corporations (I.T.T., General Motors, DuPont, Standard Oil of New Jersey, Davis Oil Co., and the Chase National Bank) all continued trading with Germany during the war because there was money in it and the US politicians didn't want to give those big corporations a big sad? The US is the "global peacekeeper" only when the target country they're invading doesn't want to go along with whatever the US wants. The UN is a whole lot more global peacekeeper than the US will ever be.

marcoperaza 9y ago
Believe what you want, but the Pax Americana is real and is empirically the most peaceful time in world history. It is partly due to nuclear deterrents and partly due to the US maintaining a massive military presence in hot spots (Korea, South China Sea, Taiwan, Persian/Arab Gulf, Eastern Europe). Yes, it is often coercive and we have certainly supported unsavory regimes. It is worth considering what the alternatives to those regimes are. In Saudi Arabia, for instance, the House of Saud is actually a moderating force keeping the Wahhabist mullahs from taking over completely. Liberal democracy will not work everywhere today, as our horribly misguided experiment in Iraq has demonstrated. I recommend Fareed Zakaria's The Future of Freedom for a discussion of the problem, but a very short summary is that you cannot have a functioning democracy without substantial economic development (natural resource money does NOT count for many reasons) and a middle class that feels highly invested in stability, growth, and trade. The US government never supported Hitler. America is a free country so of course there were many private individuals and companies who did. No different than how Western academia was extremely fond of the Soviets until the 1950s. The US actually provided massive aid to the allies before entering the war, through the lend lease program among others. The fact is that it wasn't clear at the time that it was in the United State's interests to oppose Hitler. It was a far away problem, there was a strong isolationist mood in the US, and even the Brits were trying their hand at coexisting with him.
- zdkl 9y ago
  Fine and dandy, if you live and work in the US.
  - marcoperaza 9y ago
    If you live just about anywhere. If you could pick a time to be a human but not know where you'd be born, the Pax Americana is your best choice by far.
    - thinkfurther 9y ago
      Whenever I way variations of this meme (I wouldn't call it a thought) I weigh it and find it way too light. For starters you're comparing different times, which is not even wrong, as they say. But actually the alternative to behaving as an aggressor is to behave "more decently" according to various standards, certainly differently; and that would not deter from any actual peacekeeping intentions and actions, to the contrary. Compare to the hypothetical present times without sociopaths in power and conformists making excuses for them. And explain how "Pax Americana" and the foolhardy meddling in the Middle East go together. More like "peaceful munching sounds made by the wallets of some peeps, called FELLOW AMERICANS!!1 when convenient or cute, as an extraction device, not one one of them ever considering themselves as such". There is no peace. There are people holding their ears, and there are people who will not unsee, ever. There's people who made their beds but pretend they will never have to sleep in them. But we cannot hide our own crimes behind those of others, ignorance does not protect from the consequences, lack of empathy does not protect from punishment. There is not a single history that is being written, what is swept under the rug today will be uncovered tomorrow, if there's ever going to be a day deserving the name.
      - throwanem 9y ago
        > you're comparing different times > Compare to the hypothetical It's invalid to compare the present with the past, but valid to compare the present with a present that never was?