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Really wish people would look at the demographics of Nordic countries before citing them. They are models, but they are also facing completely different dynami
by aaron-lebo 9y ago
Really wish people would look at the demographics of Nordic countries before citing them.
They are models, but they are also facing completely different dynamics than pretty much every other country. Wealthy and secure and:
* Denmark - 5.7 million people, 80% of whom are Danish
* Norway - 5.1 million people, in 1992 95% were native
* Sweden - 10 million, the largest non-Swedish ethnic group being the Finns at 150k
You can drive an hour's radius through many big US metros and cover more people than those countries and within that radius find swaths of hundreds of thousands of people of various ethnic groups. These population numbers really pale compared to anything in East Asia though even if they are homogeneous (don't discount how much that helps social dynamics).
The demographics are shifting in Nordic countries but they a really are extreme outliers worthy of praise and recognition that they are outliers.
edit to include reply:
You are talking about demographics. How can it be irrelevant?
The US is in the situation it is in because an entire demographic was transplanted here against their will due to slavery. Nordic countries do not have this situation (good!) so the potential remedies are different.
The only way to solve problems is to effectively diagnose them. You might not like that the US isn't a country of 5 million people with 80% native population which makes policy a lot easier, but that's reality. We can't make things better unless we recognize that and figure out the proper solution within this setting and not some other.
It's not racist to recognize that and it's wrong to call someone a racist because they are searching for solutions.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- civilitty 9y agoThe demographics are entirely irrelevant to this discussion and I really wish people would stop bringing it up because it's the same type of racist thinking that causes police to disproportionately target African American males. Rampant recidivism, a vengeful justice system, and an entirely ineffectual mental health treatment are the real problems - not the density, skin color, or socioeconomics of urban populations. Crime in those environments is driven by a nearly inescapable cycle of political and economic disenfranchisement starting in childhood and ending in a prison cell. It is a massive self-reinforcing feedback loop. If we had even an ounce of the empathy and rational approach to public safety that the Nordic countries had, we wouldn't be having this discussion and that feedback loop would have been broken a century ago.
- mc32 9y agoFor sure it would help is we had better support systems for the indigent and focused more on rehabilitation and re-integration. These are things we can improve, if we wanted to. That said, this is not endemic to western cultures. The same attitude is prevalent in LatAm, Africa, South Asia, etc. It would be helpful if people didn't perpetuate the myth that it springs from race (though race can exacerbate the issue). It was a problem in Britain before they became empire. It's an issue in China, India, South Africa, Singapore, Indonesia, Turkey, Iran, Japan, Korea, etc. many places far-removed from western culture.