14 ms·

anti refugee sentiment is so unconscionable, what the hell world do we live in

stinos 9y ago
Not sure why you got some downvotes. Maybe the wording? But still.. I share your sentiments regarding other's anti-refugee sentiments: seeing things like this video, and having met and talked to actual refugees (seriously, I wonder how many of the antis actually did that? Or would even want to?) and having heard what they went through, it is painful to see others shouting refugees aren't welcome (or worse). Ok I get it, it is not always practical and sometimes even problematic to allow thousands in your country, and yes they have a different culture, and yes some of them might not be on the run for actual war. But my feeling of compassion for their problems, which I as a 'standard' western can only begin to feel related to (e.g. how many of use even ever came close to an actual proper bomb, or the constant fear for it?), is still too big to jump on that bandwagon.
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  yes. sometimes i wonder... is the magnitude of the suffering that refugees are trying to escape so great that its just lost on people? its impossible to relate to for some people like me. the fact that i was shaken by watching these war videos is evidence of this, perhaps. so maybe some of us just dont empathize at all because the truth is too painful. then its easier to say there will be lots of problems so lets just not bother. i guess its incumbent on all of us to remind each other what i think the truth is.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    I hope I'm not to special but I'm in the position where I'll happily do something for those people (e.g. pay more taxes so we can help them, or give my xbox to the local refugee center - actually I did that : - ) I still think we should close the borders and focus on helping the neighbouring countries handle the situation. Why would a person who care enough to - want to pay more to help refugees and - want to help the refugees who are already here want to do that? In my case simply because todays solution is very suboptimal: It creates dangerous situations for refugees (paying huge amounts to criminals to be smuggled across Europe, crossing the Mediterranean in inflatable boats etc etc.) It creates problems here as well. Lets not understate that either. And last but perhaps not least: we are letting down the people who are hit hardest by spending the money on those who have the resources to cross Europe already instead of helping neighbouring countries.
Simon_says 9y ago
Please at least make an attempt to try to understand the other side. When any immigrants come, they change the country they immigrate to. With these particular refugees, they're refugees in no small part because of shortcomings their home culture has. It's not evil to want to preserve your own culture in the face of this. You can feel empathy for the people trapped in a hellish warzone just as you can feel empathy for the girl raped by migrants. The refugee debate is not good-vs-evil; it's competing virtues.
- aagha 9y ago
  However, it is evil to colonize people, use your economic, military and political might to support corrupt and tyrannical leaders for your economic (and military and political) gain and then be upset that the very people you helped subjugate/oppress and/or create an environment in which life and liberty is impossible shouldn't then be able to seek asylum. Wake up. The political situation in Northern Africa, the Middle East and the Sub-Continent is DIRECTLY the result of Western actors going back over a hundred years and continuing today.
- NegativeLatency 9y ago
  You can simultaneously preserve your own culture and let people have a place to live. Bringing up incidents of rape in the abstract like that is unwarranted and inappropriate in the context of the point you're trying to make. Think about how you'd feel if you were in the situation of migrants/refugees.
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    You can't perfectly preserve your culture when you let in immigrants on the scale that, say, Germany is. It's sort of a sliding scale; the more you let in, the more you change. Europe will be changed for this. As you should be able to tell from my earlier comment, I do empathize with the migrants. It's a shitty situation, and were I in one of these war-torn country, my top priority would be getting my family out of there. But the laws and immigration policies of Western countries are crafted by the current citizens and should be moulded to their benefit, not a universal altruistic ideal. By my interpretation, that would be limiting immigration to a number that can be reasonably integrated to the host culture. Immigration to Europe currently far exceeds this. I'm sorry if my mentioning rape offends, but I don't think we can have an encompassing discussion of migrants without at least mentioning it. I could have also mentioned migrants' attitudes towards women, LBGTs, freedom of speech, or freedom of religion. These are not views I want any sizable number of people in my democracy holding.
Kevve 9y ago
Moralizing is cheap. How about you stop voting for politicians who keep bombing and destabilizing countries and producing more refugees?
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  i do, and i hope other do too. its hard to know who is going to do what when people lie to get elected, but i do my best.

Not sure why you got some downvotes. Maybe the wording? But still.. I share your sentiments regarding other's anti-refugee sentiments: seeing things like this video, and having met and talked to actual refugees (seriously, I wonder how many of the antis actually did that? Or would even want to?) and having heard what they went through, it is painful to see others shouting refugees aren't welcome (or worse). Ok I get it, it is not always practical and sometimes even problematic to allow thousands in your country, and yes they have a different culture, and yes some of them might not be on the run for actual war. But my feeling of compassion for their problems, which I as a 'standard' western can only begin to feel related to (e.g. how many of use even ever came close to an actual proper bomb, or the constant fear for it?), is still too big to jump on that bandwagon.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
yes. sometimes i wonder... is the magnitude of the suffering that refugees are trying to escape so great that its just lost on people? its impossible to relate to for some people like me. the fact that i was shaken by watching these war videos is evidence of this, perhaps. so maybe some of us just dont empathize at all because the truth is too painful. then its easier to say there will be lots of problems so lets just not bother. i guess its incumbent on all of us to remind each other what i think the truth is.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  I hope I'm not to special but I'm in the position where I'll happily do something for those people (e.g. pay more taxes so we can help them, or give my xbox to the local refugee center - actually I did that : - ) I still think we should close the borders and focus on helping the neighbouring countries handle the situation. Why would a person who care enough to - want to pay more to help refugees and - want to help the refugees who are already here want to do that? In my case simply because todays solution is very suboptimal: It creates dangerous situations for refugees (paying huge amounts to criminals to be smuggled across Europe, crossing the Mediterranean in inflatable boats etc etc.) It creates problems here as well. Lets not understate that either. And last but perhaps not least: we are letting down the people who are hit hardest by spending the money on those who have the resources to cross Europe already instead of helping neighbouring countries.

Simon_says 9y ago

Please at least make an attempt to try to understand the other side. When any immigrants come, they change the country they immigrate to. With these particular refugees, they're refugees in no small part because of shortcomings their home culture has. It's not evil to want to preserve your own culture in the face of this. You can feel empathy for the people trapped in a hellish warzone just as you can feel empathy for the girl raped by migrants. The refugee debate is not good-vs-evil; it's competing virtues.

aagha 9y ago
However, it is evil to colonize people, use your economic, military and political might to support corrupt and tyrannical leaders for your economic (and military and political) gain and then be upset that the very people you helped subjugate/oppress and/or create an environment in which life and liberty is impossible shouldn't then be able to seek asylum. Wake up. The political situation in Northern Africa, the Middle East and the Sub-Continent is DIRECTLY the result of Western actors going back over a hundred years and continuing today.
NegativeLatency 9y ago
You can simultaneously preserve your own culture and let people have a place to live. Bringing up incidents of rape in the abstract like that is unwarranted and inappropriate in the context of the point you're trying to make. Think about how you'd feel if you were in the situation of migrants/refugees.
- Simon_says 9y ago
  You can't perfectly preserve your culture when you let in immigrants on the scale that, say, Germany is. It's sort of a sliding scale; the more you let in, the more you change. Europe will be changed for this. As you should be able to tell from my earlier comment, I do empathize with the migrants. It's a shitty situation, and were I in one of these war-torn country, my top priority would be getting my family out of there. But the laws and immigration policies of Western countries are crafted by the current citizens and should be moulded to their benefit, not a universal altruistic ideal. By my interpretation, that would be limiting immigration to a number that can be reasonably integrated to the host culture. Immigration to Europe currently far exceeds this. I'm sorry if my mentioning rape offends, but I don't think we can have an encompassing discussion of migrants without at least mentioning it. I could have also mentioned migrants' attitudes towards women, LBGTs, freedom of speech, or freedom of religion. These are not views I want any sizable number of people in my democracy holding.

Kevve 9y ago

Moralizing is cheap. How about you stop voting for politicians who keep bombing and destabilizing countries and producing more refugees?

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
i do, and i hope other do too. its hard to know who is going to do what when people lie to get elected, but i do my best.