4 ms·

> You could use Ethereum to create all kinds of interesting contracts for financial purposes, voting systems, insurance, or whatever else Perhaps you could but

by chx 9y ago

> You could use Ethereum to create all kinds of interesting contracts for financial purposes, voting systems, insurance, or whatever else Perhaps you could but currently no one does. There's still not a single real world legal application that needs cryptocurrency. Much as with the pro-life debate (to name a bad phrase) or with global warming now renamed climate change (to name a good phrase) the name of the thing frames the discussion. Calling it a "currency" makes people think it's not a Ponzi or a scam when it's decidedly one of them.

Tomis02 9y ago
> global warming now renamed climate change Actually not true, the phrase 'climate change' has been coined more than half a century ago. The idea that there was a rebranding of the phenomenon is false beyond doubt, and actually hurtful to the process of acknowledging we have a big problem.
- Tomis02 9y ago
  Here's some random link to support my claim, since some people in the HN crowd prefer to downvote instead of discussing what makes them uncomfortable. https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-the-dumbest-denier-myth-climate-change-vs-global-warming-95dbb3aa65e2 https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-the-dumbest-denier-myth-...
JasoonS 9y ago
> currently no one does. Clearly you haven't done enough research. Have you looked at the ethereum token (ERC20: https://theethereum.wiki/w/index.php/ERC20_Token_Standard https://theethereum.wiki/w/index.php/ERC20_Token_Standard) launch contracts? They raise large amounts of money (its actually scary!) and securely and transparently tokens are distributed to participants. These tokens can then represent anything (really anything) from stock (blockchain capital etc), to voting rights in the organisation (districtOx), to a utility token (golem, basic attention token) to allow use for what ever protocol is being developed. There already are private secure voting systems being researched. Here for example: https://github.com/stonecoldpat/anonymousvoting https://github.com/stonecoldpat/anonymousvoting ZK-snarks is used to ensure privacy. You can see some of the other applications here: https://dapps.ethercasts.com/ https://dapps.ethercasts.com/ (most of these are just fun ideas, but you don't have to look far to see the potential in them). There is real utility to Ethereum, it is just very very young as a technology, and all the issues of scalability etc are a work in progress. But if you want to use the trust-less and secure computational power to execute your code (smart contract) you need to buy Ether first. Is that a Ponzi? I think you are unfairly grouping ethereum in the same category as a large number coins that very much are ponzis.
- joosters 9y ago
  None of these tokens do anything useful today. And at least 99% will never do anything useful, since the market is full of scammers and over-promising start-ups who use the magic 'decentralize' word.
  - JasoonS 9y ago
    Exactly, that's why you probably shouldn't be throwing your money at any of them. That's not an indication of the future of the technology though. Only time will tell.
dogma1138 9y ago
Blockchain != crypto currency. There are quite a few private blockchains that are now running in the financial and healthcare industries at a pretty large pilot programmes that are very functional and bring destinct advantages.
- joosters 9y ago
  Name some. And then explain why a private blockchain, controlled by a single entity, or a group of companies that trust each other, is better than a database.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    It is effectively a database with specific features. A blockchain isn't magic, I'm currently working on a project with the royal mint that will be used for correspondent banking applications. Think of it this way you have a database that is guaranteed to be consistent across all nodes, offers you full tracking of any action performed on that database, offers you non-repudiation and much more. Sure you can probably hack it over an existing standard DB but at what cost?
  - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
    Blockchain has a lot of distinct advantages when things need a very clear audit trail. Auditors love the fact that a block can't be modified without recalculating all subsequent blocks. Of course, in a blockchain controlled by a single private entity, the entity could redo all the blocks, but that's not really the main concern. The concern is to try to prevent rogue individuals from modifying the ledger without detection, and that is harder to do with blockchain than plain DB access controls.
    - chx 9y ago
      Blimey! Here I thought any database server worth a rusty copper can do a detailed, queryable audit log / trail if that's what you need. At least MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQL Server, DB2, Oracle surely can.

by chx 9y ago

Tomis02 9y ago

> global warming now renamed climate change Actually not true, the phrase 'climate change' has been coined more than half a century ago. The idea that there was a rebranding of the phenomenon is false beyond doubt, and actually hurtful to the process of acknowledging we have a big problem.

Tomis02 9y ago
Here's some random link to support my claim, since some people in the HN crowd prefer to downvote instead of discussing what makes them uncomfortable. https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-the-dumbest-denier-myth-climate-change-vs-global-warming-95dbb3aa65e2 https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-the-dumbest-denier-myth-...

JasoonS 9y ago

> currently no one does. Clearly you haven't done enough research. Have you looked at the ethereum token (ERC20: https://theethereum.wiki/w/index.php/ERC20_Token_Standard https://theethereum.wiki/w/index.php/ERC20_Token_Standard) launch contracts? They raise large amounts of money (its actually scary!) and securely and transparently tokens are distributed to participants. These tokens can then represent anything (really anything) from stock (blockchain capital etc), to voting rights in the organisation (districtOx), to a utility token (golem, basic attention token) to allow use for what ever protocol is being developed. There already are private secure voting systems being researched. Here for example: https://github.com/stonecoldpat/anonymousvoting https://github.com/stonecoldpat/anonymousvoting ZK-snarks is used to ensure privacy. You can see some of the other applications here: https://dapps.ethercasts.com/ https://dapps.ethercasts.com/ (most of these are just fun ideas, but you don't have to look far to see the potential in them). There is real utility to Ethereum, it is just very very young as a technology, and all the issues of scalability etc are a work in progress. But if you want to use the trust-less and secure computational power to execute your code (smart contract) you need to buy Ether first. Is that a Ponzi? I think you are unfairly grouping ethereum in the same category as a large number coins that very much are ponzis.

joosters 9y ago
None of these tokens do anything useful today. And at least 99% will never do anything useful, since the market is full of scammers and over-promising start-ups who use the magic 'decentralize' word.
- JasoonS 9y ago
  Exactly, that's why you probably shouldn't be throwing your money at any of them. That's not an indication of the future of the technology though. Only time will tell.

dogma1138 9y ago

Blockchain != crypto currency. There are quite a few private blockchains that are now running in the financial and healthcare industries at a pretty large pilot programmes that are very functional and bring destinct advantages.

joosters 9y ago
Name some. And then explain why a private blockchain, controlled by a single entity, or a group of companies that trust each other, is better than a database.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  It is effectively a database with specific features. A blockchain isn't magic, I'm currently working on a project with the royal mint that will be used for correspondent banking applications. Think of it this way you have a database that is guaranteed to be consistent across all nodes, offers you full tracking of any action performed on that database, offers you non-repudiation and much more. Sure you can probably hack it over an existing standard DB but at what cost?
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  Blockchain has a lot of distinct advantages when things need a very clear audit trail. Auditors love the fact that a block can't be modified without recalculating all subsequent blocks. Of course, in a blockchain controlled by a single private entity, the entity could redo all the blocks, but that's not really the main concern. The concern is to try to prevent rogue individuals from modifying the ledger without detection, and that is harder to do with blockchain than plain DB access controls.
  - chx 9y ago
    Blimey! Here I thought any database server worth a rusty copper can do a detailed, queryable audit log / trail if that's what you need. At least MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQL Server, DB2, Oracle surely can.