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Maddow’s “Scoop” About Fake NSA Document Raises Several Key Questions

33 points by honksillet 9y ago

microcolonel 9y ago
What questions? We already know that the major cable news refuse to verify sources anymore because it hurts their revenue to throw away juicy fakes. The news media, especially cable news, has completely lost the trust of the public, and it's because they no longer even pretend to care about the facts. Edit: Referring specifically to this: "She suggested, without stating, that this may have been what caused CNN and other outlets recently to publish reports about Trump and/or Russia that ended up being retracted."
- evan_ 9y ago
  > We already know that the major cable news refuse to verify sources anymore because it hurts their revenue to throw away juicy fakes. You're responding to a story about a major cable news outlet outing a juicy story as untrue.
- pcwalton 9y ago
  The entire reason behind this story's existence is that MSNBC failed to verify the authenticity of a document (one that they declined to publish as fact), something that they wouldn't do if they didn't care about reporting truthfully.
- BryantD 9y ago
  I don't know that. I know that CNN fired three people when they discovered that they ran a story without proper checking. If your assumption was correct, that wouldn't have happened.
- anth1988 9y ago
  They have never revealed sources, what's changed is an insane president who wants to discredit the media because of a combination of ego, incompetence, and criminal behaviour.
Aloha 9y ago
Is the metadata timezone adjusted - or does it include a timezone?
- dmckeon 9y ago
  Since the metadata in the document the Maddow show received matches the metadata in the document that The Intercept published, Occam's razor would suggest, as TI quotes Maddow: "someone appears to have used your [TI's] doc as a template for ginning up a fake one" The important take-away here seems to be that news outlets should expect to receive more purportedly "leaked" documents which are actually forgeries, created for the purposes of discrediting news teams that are less diligent about checking their sources, and to muddy the waters about certain stories. In other words, "fake leaks" to create "fake news".
  - elihu 9y ago
    In this case, if the forger was trying to discredit news sources and create general confusion and drama it was apparently successful.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - a3n 9y ago
    Leaks are illegal, because their release says something about a country that, when public, weakens it in some way. It seems that a fake leak might also damage a country. I wonder if fake leaks are illegal? It sounds vaguely like espionage to me. The Russians have been accused of planting fake stories to influence elections, for example. How is this different?
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      Leaks are illegal because they violate laws governing classified information. Releasing a leak by an entity not under the jurisdiction of the law of the affected party is not illegal. That said you might be prosecuted for possessing illegally obtained material in any case since the information is technically a property of the affected party. Espionage laws are tricky you it's not easy to prosecute a foreign agent unless they are a citizen or a lawful resident of your own country. Things are more complex when dealing with real world agents since every country brings them in under a diplomatic cover so at best you can deport them or illegally detain them.
evan_ 9y ago
I agree that they made too much of the metadata- the simplest explanation is that the document was sent to The Rachel Maddow Show (and possibly other sources) by an alt-right person in an attempt to discredit media outlets that are perceived to be "anti-Trump". Still, I don't totally understand how the metadata would have come to be the same, surely they weren't just opening the PDF in photoshop and modifying it- if they had, all of the stenographic dots would still be present. Though most of the alt-right is focusing on CNN right now there was a fairly sophisticated fake MSNBC "special report" video going around a few days ago so it's not like they're ignoring other outlets.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
- anth1988 9y ago
  How does the NSA engaging in mass surveillance and hoarding vulnerabilities in major applications improve cyber-security?

33 points by honksillet 9y ago

What questions? We already know that the major cable news refuse to verify sources anymore because it hurts their revenue to throw away juicy fakes. The news media, especially cable news, has completely lost the trust of the public, and it's because they no longer even pretend to care about the facts. Edit: Referring specifically to this: "She suggested, without stating, that this may have been what caused CNN and other outlets recently to publish reports about Trump and/or Russia that ended up being retracted."

evan_ 9y ago
> We already know that the major cable news refuse to verify sources anymore because it hurts their revenue to throw away juicy fakes. You're responding to a story about a major cable news outlet outing a juicy story as untrue.
pcwalton 9y ago
The entire reason behind this story's existence is that MSNBC failed to verify the authenticity of a document (one that they declined to publish as fact), something that they wouldn't do if they didn't care about reporting truthfully.
BryantD 9y ago
I don't know that. I know that CNN fired three people when they discovered that they ran a story without proper checking. If your assumption was correct, that wouldn't have happened.
anth1988 9y ago
They have never revealed sources, what's changed is an insane president who wants to discredit the media because of a combination of ego, incompetence, and criminal behaviour.

Aloha 9y ago

Is the metadata timezone adjusted - or does it include a timezone?

dmckeon 9y ago
Since the metadata in the document the Maddow show received matches the metadata in the document that The Intercept published, Occam's razor would suggest, as TI quotes Maddow: "someone appears to have used your [TI's] doc as a template for ginning up a fake one" The important take-away here seems to be that news outlets should expect to receive more purportedly "leaked" documents which are actually forgeries, created for the purposes of discrediting news teams that are less diligent about checking their sources, and to muddy the waters about certain stories. In other words, "fake leaks" to create "fake news".
- elihu 9y ago
  In this case, if the forger was trying to discredit news sources and create general confusion and drama it was apparently successful.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- a3n 9y ago
  Leaks are illegal, because their release says something about a country that, when public, weakens it in some way. It seems that a fake leak might also damage a country. I wonder if fake leaks are illegal? It sounds vaguely like espionage to me. The Russians have been accused of planting fake stories to influence elections, for example. How is this different?
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Leaks are illegal because they violate laws governing classified information. Releasing a leak by an entity not under the jurisdiction of the law of the affected party is not illegal. That said you might be prosecuted for possessing illegally obtained material in any case since the information is technically a property of the affected party. Espionage laws are tricky you it's not easy to prosecute a foreign agent unless they are a citizen or a lawful resident of your own country. Things are more complex when dealing with real world agents since every country brings them in under a diplomatic cover so at best you can deport them or illegally detain them.

evan_ 9y ago

I agree that they made too much of the metadata- the simplest explanation is that the document was sent to The Rachel Maddow Show (and possibly other sources) by an alt-right person in an attempt to discredit media outlets that are perceived to be "anti-Trump". Still, I don't totally understand how the metadata would have come to be the same, surely they weren't just opening the PDF in photoshop and modifying it- if they had, all of the stenographic dots would still be present. Though most of the alt-right is focusing on CNN right now there was a fairly sophisticated fake MSNBC "special report" video going around a few days ago so it's not like they're ignoring other outlets.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

anth1988 9y ago
How does the NSA engaging in mass surveillance and hoarding vulnerabilities in major applications improve cyber-security?