4 ms·

On the contrary, he seems to the the kind of person that knows about the bureaucratic nature of NHTSA and cut his losses.

by ktta 9y ago

mikeash 9y ago
If he knew about it then why would he have even started the project? It's obvious that regulators would be involved in a project like this. I don't see how he didn't anticipate this from the start.
- ktta 9y ago
  As they say: Hindsight is 20/20
  - Voloskaya 9y ago
    Come on. Do you honestly not assume that the device you are producing that will be responsible for driving cars will get a least inspected by NHTSA? Do you also need to be warned that if you create a plane autopilot, the FAA might get involved?
  - mwfunk 9y ago
    You are literally agreeing with everyone accusing him of being ignorant though. You think you're defending him, but this is what everyone is saying. The fact that dealing with NHTSA or what that entails is "hindsight" to him is what makes him almost mind-bogglingly ignorant here. I would think a precocious 12-year-old would have been able to predict that, or at least would have the smarts to, say, at least ask somebody ahead of time (like a lawyer) what legal hurdles his business (that has life-and-death consequences, and that he sought funding for) might have to deal with in the future. His own explanation for what happened makes him sound way worse than if he hadn't explained it at all.
Merad 9y ago
The questions he was asked were pretty darn reasonable, IMO. If he's unwilling or unable to answer those questions I have no problem at all with him being prohibited from selling a product that his customers would literally be trusting with their lives.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  Not just his customers, but also anyone unfortunate enough to be on the same road at the same time as.
anth1988 9y ago
Rules written in blood. If you aren't prepared for a bit of bureaucracy then you have no place being anywhere near this industry.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
oh_sigh 9y ago
Cruise sold for >$1B. If he thought his company was better off than that, it is supremely irrational to not put up with the pain of the NHTSA. Hell, just hire a lawyer to do everything and you don't even need to think about it. No, from my guess, Hotz copped out when he realized that his prototype, while fun, was no where near production ready and would be completely illegal to ship to any customers.
- commaai 9y ago
  73 people are using our technology today, that's actually more than Cruise, even over a year later...
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    That's great, but I'm not sure how it is really relevant to the point...
- ktta 9y ago
  This is my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Hotz never seemed like the guy who would do things similar to what Cruise did. Vogt had already sold two startups prior to Cruise, and he was well versed in the tactics of the startup world. Have great articles put out, polished PR touches, the whole works. OTOH, Hotz had this 'Hacker' air to whatever he does. From the iPhone, to PlayStation, to even hacking the cars he was building the tech with, he had a very different attitude compared to the let's-be-poised-for-a-buyout vibe that many startups give. Startups like Cruise are scared of breaking rules, worrying about how it might bite them later in the day. If you ask me, Cruise was never going to make it on its own. The major car companies have decades of supply chain process management and huge amounts of capital behind them. Cruise couldn't never do what it said it would do, and I would imagine, a buy out was always on the founders minds. Comma.ai is a different beast. They aren't really worried about rules. That's terrible attitude for a 'startup', I agree. People here have valid arguments about thinking about the NHTSA before hand, but I think they just dared to go ahead without giving a crap. It backfired, but I wouldn't attribute his decision to failure in building a working product.

On the contrary, he seems to the the kind of person that knows about the bureaucratic nature of NHTSA and cut his losses.

by ktta 9y ago

On the contrary, he seems to the the kind of person that knows about the bureaucratic nature of NHTSA and cut his losses.

mikeash 9y ago

If he knew about it then why would he have even started the project? It's obvious that regulators would be involved in a project like this. I don't see how he didn't anticipate this from the start.

ktta 9y ago
As they say: Hindsight is 20/20
- Voloskaya 9y ago
  Come on. Do you honestly not assume that the device you are producing that will be responsible for driving cars will get a least inspected by NHTSA? Do you also need to be warned that if you create a plane autopilot, the FAA might get involved?
- mwfunk 9y ago
  You are literally agreeing with everyone accusing him of being ignorant though. You think you're defending him, but this is what everyone is saying. The fact that dealing with NHTSA or what that entails is "hindsight" to him is what makes him almost mind-bogglingly ignorant here. I would think a precocious 12-year-old would have been able to predict that, or at least would have the smarts to, say, at least ask somebody ahead of time (like a lawyer) what legal hurdles his business (that has life-and-death consequences, and that he sought funding for) might have to deal with in the future. His own explanation for what happened makes him sound way worse than if he hadn't explained it at all.

Merad 9y ago

The questions he was asked were pretty darn reasonable, IMO. If he's unwilling or unable to answer those questions I have no problem at all with him being prohibited from selling a product that his customers would literally be trusting with their lives.

jsjohnst 9y ago
Not just his customers, but also anyone unfortunate enough to be on the same road at the same time as.

anth1988 9y ago

Rules written in blood. If you aren't prepared for a bit of bureaucracy then you have no place being anywhere near this industry.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

oh_sigh 9y ago

Cruise sold for >$1B. If he thought his company was better off than that, it is supremely irrational to not put up with the pain of the NHTSA. Hell, just hire a lawyer to do everything and you don't even need to think about it. No, from my guess, Hotz copped out when he realized that his prototype, while fun, was no where near production ready and would be completely illegal to ship to any customers.

commaai 9y ago
73 people are using our technology today, that's actually more than Cruise, even over a year later...
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  That's great, but I'm not sure how it is really relevant to the point...
ktta 9y ago
This is my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Hotz never seemed like the guy who would do things similar to what Cruise did. Vogt had already sold two startups prior to Cruise, and he was well versed in the tactics of the startup world. Have great articles put out, polished PR touches, the whole works. OTOH, Hotz had this 'Hacker' air to whatever he does. From the iPhone, to PlayStation, to even hacking the cars he was building the tech with, he had a very different attitude compared to the let's-be-poised-for-a-buyout vibe that many startups give. Startups like Cruise are scared of breaking rules, worrying about how it might bite them later in the day. If you ask me, Cruise was never going to make it on its own. The major car companies have decades of supply chain process management and huge amounts of capital behind them. Cruise couldn't never do what it said it would do, and I would imagine, a buy out was always on the founders minds. Comma.ai is a different beast. They aren't really worried about rules. That's terrible attitude for a 'startup', I agree. People here have valid arguments about thinking about the NHTSA before hand, but I think they just dared to go ahead without giving a crap. It backfired, but I wouldn't attribute his decision to failure in building a working product.