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Why a dongle? The chffr app (video / nav data) + panda dongle (sensor data) is a simple way to let anybody participate in data collection, and for comma.ai to

Why a dongle? The chffr app (video / nav data) + panda dongle (sensor data) is a simple way to let anybody participate in data collection, and for comma.ai to build enterprise value by accruing and organizing a gigantic data set that's critical to them or any third party executing the ML at core of self driving. Now pair this with a tweet they posted in June: "Just realized something. You are really going to be happy you have comma points. Get in early... http://getchffr.com/ http://getchffr.com/ #ICO"(1) I think that's an incredibly compelling / fascinating ACTUAL use case for an ICO vs the current litany of pyramiding and outright scams we're seeing. Take their chffr app + panda dongle and give people a financial INCENTIVE to accrue "points" by running the two data harvesting mechanisms and suddenly I am seeing comma's strategy in a new light. (1) https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/873014550164938752 https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/873014550164938752

roymurdock 9y ago
The real winner in the race to mandate OBD-II monitoring is the auto insurance industry. Sure, you could install Hotz's dongle, give Hotz your data, earn "comma points", feel like you are helping to train self driving cars, and trade these comma points for - what exactly? a comma plushie? - while Hotz turns around and sells your data to insurance companies. Or you could get a free OBD dongle directly from your current insurance company [1] and watch your rates go up/down depending on how safe of a driver you are. Ultimately, Comma.ai needs to find an automotive partner. It will be nearly impossible for the company to beat Google, Uber, and (presumably) Apple, who all have strong partnerships with auto OEMs, in quality or quantity of driving data without direct integration and extensive testing on vehicles designed for autonomous driving. Not to mention Tesla, which is an OEM itself, and can design in data collection/processing for self driving vehicles from the ground up. [1] https://jalopnik.com/progressive-insurances-driver-tracking-tool-is-ridicul-1680720690 https://jalopnik.com/progressive-insurances-driver-tracking-...
- ethanwillis 9y ago
  Not a comma plushie. He mentioned ICO, so cryptocurrency. Which with something of value like this behind it the comma "points" (tokens?) could be worth quite a lot if you're an early adopter.
  - aresant 9y ago
    EXACTLY. Sorry if I was unclear. ICO as a way to convert "Internet Points" into something of material value and reward users directly for contributions is incredibly fascinating to me.
    - roymurdock 9y ago
      It's not "internet points", it's simply a way to more easily measure how much data you've contributed to comma's database. Fundamentally, that data is only valuable to insurance companies, which are already willing to pay you ~$160 (in lower insurance rates) for a year's worth of driving data. In theory Hotz could (and should) just pay you directly in $USD for your driving data, arbitraging a bit off the top before selling it to insurance companies. But the genius of him "paying" you in cryptocurrency is that it will get you to give it away for free "points"! And to pay him for the hardware to do so! Because you think that a market might develop around these "points" where they will get bought up by a bigger fool, pumping up their value way beyond their fundamental value to the end consumers of this data - insurance companies. These "points" have no other value or use, as they would not otherwise function as currency (store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account) unless Hotz decoupled point generation from car data generation and just started minting an arbitrary virtual currency.
woah 9y ago
There's absolutely no point in having this be a cryptocurrency, unless there is some way that all the driving data will be posted to the blockchain and verified not to be fake by the blockchain. And blockchains definitely don't have the storage or computation to do any of that, plus who wants their driving data to be public? Otherwise, it's just sending data to Comma in exchange for points. If you have one master account minting tokens (throughout the life of the currency), it's not really decentralized. They could have a SQL database with the same decentralization and security profile. My guess is that the only use of blockchains here is to jump on the current ICO hype.

roymurdock 9y ago

The real winner in the race to mandate OBD-II monitoring is the auto insurance industry. Sure, you could install Hotz's dongle, give Hotz your data, earn "comma points", feel like you are helping to train self driving cars, and trade these comma points for - what exactly? a comma plushie? - while Hotz turns around and sells your data to insurance companies. Or you could get a free OBD dongle directly from your current insurance company [1] and watch your rates go up/down depending on how safe of a driver you are. Ultimately, Comma.ai needs to find an automotive partner. It will be nearly impossible for the company to beat Google, Uber, and (presumably) Apple, who all have strong partnerships with auto OEMs, in quality or quantity of driving data without direct integration and extensive testing on vehicles designed for autonomous driving. Not to mention Tesla, which is an OEM itself, and can design in data collection/processing for self driving vehicles from the ground up. [1] https://jalopnik.com/progressive-insurances-driver-tracking-tool-is-ridicul-1680720690 https://jalopnik.com/progressive-insurances-driver-tracking-...

ethanwillis 9y ago
Not a comma plushie. He mentioned ICO, so cryptocurrency. Which with something of value like this behind it the comma "points" (tokens?) could be worth quite a lot if you're an early adopter.
- aresant 9y ago
  EXACTLY. Sorry if I was unclear. ICO as a way to convert "Internet Points" into something of material value and reward users directly for contributions is incredibly fascinating to me.
  - roymurdock 9y ago
    It's not "internet points", it's simply a way to more easily measure how much data you've contributed to comma's database. Fundamentally, that data is only valuable to insurance companies, which are already willing to pay you ~$160 (in lower insurance rates) for a year's worth of driving data. In theory Hotz could (and should) just pay you directly in $USD for your driving data, arbitraging a bit off the top before selling it to insurance companies. But the genius of him "paying" you in cryptocurrency is that it will get you to give it away for free "points"! And to pay him for the hardware to do so! Because you think that a market might develop around these "points" where they will get bought up by a bigger fool, pumping up their value way beyond their fundamental value to the end consumers of this data - insurance companies. These "points" have no other value or use, as they would not otherwise function as currency (store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account) unless Hotz decoupled point generation from car data generation and just started minting an arbitrary virtual currency.

woah 9y ago

There's absolutely no point in having this be a cryptocurrency, unless there is some way that all the driving data will be posted to the blockchain and verified not to be fake by the blockchain. And blockchains definitely don't have the storage or computation to do any of that, plus who wants their driving data to be public? Otherwise, it's just sending data to Comma in exchange for points. If you have one master account minting tokens (throughout the life of the currency), it's not really decentralized. They could have a SQL database with the same decentralization and security profile. My guess is that the only use of blockchains here is to jump on the current ICO hype.