4 ms·

When you have to resort to pointing out the name of your opponent's logical fallacy, you have already lost the debate.

by nicky0 9y ago

mannykannot 9y ago
This site started off in the right direction with the reasonable position that awareness of common fallacies can help in spotting when they are being used and in responding to them. Unfortunately, it goes on to say "If you see someone committing a fallacy, link them to it e.g. yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman", which is not a useful response, as it fails to state what, specifically, is allegedly fallacious about the disputed argument.
NTripleOne 9y ago
If only more people understood this. Pointing out a fallacy might as well be a fallacy itself.
- striking 9y ago
  It's a fallacy to assume that just because a claim was argued in a fallacious manner, that it's also incorrect. (Which is close to what you said.) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy Pointing out a fallacy by name is usually silly, but knowing how people twist debates and being able to defend against that is not.
- chillwaves 9y ago
  You might enjoy this, http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 but more to the point, conversation is more constructive when folks engage in the practice of principle of charity [1] where you will interpret the other's argument in the strongest possible light. This helps create more light, less smoke and avoid the gotcha-ism associated with fallacy fallacy. [1] http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
To expand on this, if someone says "you just used a slippery slope [1] argument and therefore your claim is false," don't respond by citing the fallacy fallacy [2]. Instead, make an analogy (preferably one unrelated to the topic at hand and a second one more germane) to illustrate the unfounded leap. Partly because fallacies go by many names and are not well understood. Partly since many cultures associate "your argument is illogical" with "you are stupid". [1] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope [2] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy
pyroinferno 9y ago
I think pointing out some fallacies aren't that bad. For example, pointing out a "strawman" is a good way to signal to the other party that they're attacking stances that aren't even yours.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
dredmorbius 9y ago
If a position is so poorly conceived that the simplest thing to do is to point out that it is logically invalid, then, no, you've done your job. Yes, logical fallacies can be misused and abused. But the power is in the name: committing one of these tactics, legitimately, is logically false and invalid. It invalidates an argument. Pointing out that your opponnent is lying dying and bleeding out on the ground doesn't lose you a fight.

When you have to resort to pointing out the name of your opponent's logical fallacy, you have already lost the debate.

by nicky0 9y ago

When you have to resort to pointing out the name of your opponent's logical fallacy, you have already lost the debate.

This site started off in the right direction with the reasonable position that awareness of common fallacies can help in spotting when they are being used and in responding to them. Unfortunately, it goes on to say "If you see someone committing a fallacy, link them to it e.g. yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman", which is not a useful response, as it fails to state what, specifically, is allegedly fallacious about the disputed argument.

NTripleOne 9y ago

If only more people understood this. Pointing out a fallacy might as well be a fallacy itself.

striking 9y ago
It's a fallacy to assume that just because a claim was argued in a fallacious manner, that it's also incorrect. (Which is close to what you said.) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy Pointing out a fallacy by name is usually silly, but knowing how people twist debates and being able to defend against that is not.
chillwaves 9y ago
You might enjoy this, http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 but more to the point, conversation is more constructive when folks engage in the practice of principle of charity [1] where you will interpret the other's argument in the strongest possible light. This helps create more light, less smoke and avoid the gotcha-ism associated with fallacy fallacy. [1] http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

To expand on this, if someone says "you just used a slippery slope [1] argument and therefore your claim is false," don't respond by citing the fallacy fallacy [2]. Instead, make an analogy (preferably one unrelated to the topic at hand and a second one more germane) to illustrate the unfounded leap. Partly because fallacies go by many names and are not well understood. Partly since many cultures associate "your argument is illogical" with "you are stupid". [1] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope [2] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

pyroinferno 9y ago

I think pointing out some fallacies aren't that bad. For example, pointing out a "strawman" is a good way to signal to the other party that they're attacking stances that aren't even yours.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

dredmorbius 9y ago

If a position is so poorly conceived that the simplest thing to do is to point out that it is logically invalid, then, no, you've done your job. Yes, logical fallacies can be misused and abused. But the power is in the name: committing one of these tactics, legitimately, is logically false and invalid. It invalidates an argument. Pointing out that your opponnent is lying dying and bleeding out on the ground doesn't lose you a fight.