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Anyone here played the real time strategy game Total Annihilation or its spiritual successor Supreme Commander? I remember playing with a friend around 1998 and

Anyone here played the real time strategy game Total Annihilation or its spiritual successor Supreme Commander? I remember playing with a friend around 1998 and he told me off for using energy storage as opposed to just collecting/producing more energy sans storage. His argument was that my economy should never be at the point that I'm saving energy for a rainy day - I should be spending as I collect/produce so that my potential is always maximised. I told him I need a buffer for when I'm spending more than I'm producing or if I lose infrastructure in battle. Either way, we played each other over LAN one day and sure enough he took out a few of my nuclear plants, but I had enough energy stored to keep bombarding his base with artillery and eventually struck his commander despite being in the negative for energy production vs consumption. I won. He changed his opinion after that. It's good to save for that rainy day.

lmm 9y ago
The costs and benefits in those games are set deliberately at a point where the decision of which to build is interesting. No such restriction applies to reality. I very much doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life.
- icanhackit 9y ago
  > doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life Aren't most games a form of allegory?
  - lmm 9y ago
    No, and especially not the good ones (and TA / SupCom stand among the best). Good game design prioritizes gameplay over moral or political messages, IME.
    - icanhackit 9y ago
      > Good game design prioritizes gameplay over moral or political messages This is tangential to what we're discussing, but TA was politicised: What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds.
      - lmm 9y ago
        It didn't take a position on the issue though - if anything it took a cynical "they're both as bad as each other" view, showing hypocrisy on both sides. (I suppose you could argue that's still a political position, but I'd say it's primarily a gameplay decision, particularly in the context of a multiplayer-oriented game, to have two more-or-less equal-and-opposite sides who both carry equal responsibility for the war).
      - Balero 9y ago
        The game was made long before the story. From what I remember (I can't remember where I read this) the story and campaign were fairly rushed afterthoughts, compared to the mechanics and multiplayer.
        Malician 9y ago
        The story itself was iffy, but the campaign's aesthetic and maps were AMAZING. I still remember the "defend the harbor" mission where you had one Moho mine and you had the long range destroyers showing up and desperately salvaging the long range Ranger missile ships for minerals because they were utterly nonthreatening but super valuable.. The map with a giant crevasse. The map with a ton of gunships. It was a really solid campaign. It felt like an amazing story even if the writing was simple to the point of parody just because everything was so well designed and fit perfectly together.
- jlg23 9y ago
  > I very much doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life. The benefit is not constant either; in areas with regular outages you have a very high incentive to build energy storage (food spoils in the fridge, you cannot do laundry, your router needs power etc). Add a choice of semi-viable alternative energy sources to the mix and the decision is just as interesting as it is in games. Real World Scenario(TM) - Northern Republica Dominicana: * rolling blackouts (typically 8h, from 9am to 5pm; once a week); at least once a week some drunk driver takes down a pole (usually fixed in 2h) * capped electricity bills for low income households * no enforcement of security standards (not sure such exist at all) - so an array of old car batteries will do just fine. bonus points for investing another $50 into acid-resistant flooring. * solar power works, but without sun tracking only for 5 to 8h/day * wind power works, but not everywhere (jungle is a great barrier for wind) * water pressure is so low you need a motorized pump just to flush your toilet [disclaimer: I spent 6 months in that part of the DR in the last 2 years] EDIT: Only 2nd hand, but from 200[345] - in an economic standoff between government and energy producer the navy sent "generator ships" that anchored near the shore of Puerto Plata and delivered electricity to the local population through cables they ran through the water.

lmm 9y ago

The costs and benefits in those games are set deliberately at a point where the decision of which to build is interesting. No such restriction applies to reality. I very much doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life.

icanhackit 9y ago
> doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life Aren't most games a form of allegory?
- lmm 9y ago
  No, and especially not the good ones (and TA / SupCom stand among the best). Good game design prioritizes gameplay over moral or political messages, IME.
  - icanhackit 9y ago
    > Good game design prioritizes gameplay over moral or political messages This is tangential to what we're discussing, but TA was politicised: What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds.
    - lmm 9y ago
      It didn't take a position on the issue though - if anything it took a cynical "they're both as bad as each other" view, showing hypocrisy on both sides. (I suppose you could argue that's still a political position, but I'd say it's primarily a gameplay decision, particularly in the context of a multiplayer-oriented game, to have two more-or-less equal-and-opposite sides who both carry equal responsibility for the war).
    - Balero 9y ago
      The game was made long before the story. From what I remember (I can't remember where I read this) the story and campaign were fairly rushed afterthoughts, compared to the mechanics and multiplayer.
      - Malician 9y ago
        The story itself was iffy, but the campaign's aesthetic and maps were AMAZING. I still remember the "defend the harbor" mission where you had one Moho mine and you had the long range destroyers showing up and desperately salvaging the long range Ranger missile ships for minerals because they were utterly nonthreatening but super valuable.. The map with a giant crevasse. The map with a ton of gunships. It was a really solid campaign. It felt like an amazing story even if the writing was simple to the point of parody just because everything was so well designed and fit perfectly together.
jlg23 9y ago
> I very much doubt the relative costs of production and storage in game are at all close to what they are in real life. The benefit is not constant either; in areas with regular outages you have a very high incentive to build energy storage (food spoils in the fridge, you cannot do laundry, your router needs power etc). Add a choice of semi-viable alternative energy sources to the mix and the decision is just as interesting as it is in games. Real World Scenario(TM) - Northern Republica Dominicana: * rolling blackouts (typically 8h, from 9am to 5pm; once a week); at least once a week some drunk driver takes down a pole (usually fixed in 2h) * capped electricity bills for low income households * no enforcement of security standards (not sure such exist at all) - so an array of old car batteries will do just fine. bonus points for investing another $50 into acid-resistant flooring. * solar power works, but without sun tracking only for 5 to 8h/day * wind power works, but not everywhere (jungle is a great barrier for wind) * water pressure is so low you need a motorized pump just to flush your toilet [disclaimer: I spent 6 months in that part of the DR in the last 2 years] EDIT: Only 2nd hand, but from 200[345] - in an economic standoff between government and energy producer the navy sent "generator ships" that anchored near the shore of Puerto Plata and delivered electricity to the local population through cables they ran through the water.