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I love my combustion engine car and don't plan to go electric next time... but this article made me think. And while perhaps a little too optimistic on timeline

I love my combustion engine car and don't plan to go electric next time... but this article made me think. And while perhaps a little too optimistic on timeline, I have to concede that his premise regarding moving parts has merit.

52-6F-62 9y ago
If it's any comfort, I don't think combustion engines will go anywhere. They will likely be relegated to a romantic niche, however. It happened with vinyl and film already, most famously. They were announced to have met their end and were doomed to be but a mark in history books, yet they've found their place. A fine-tuned masterpiece of mid-20th century automotive engineering is a thing of beauty, but it's not sustainable on a vast scale anymore -- and that's what we need for transportation now. We need transport on a vast scale -- a worldwide, ubiquitous, affordable scale. Everyone needs access without harming the planet that we so happily live upon. If it combustion engine vehicles become about beauty, they will last in some form. I hope they do.
- TheCondor 9y ago
  I've been pondering this. I think gasoline could become hard to get very rapidly. There are already fewer gas stations along the interstates as car ranges have increased. As electrification takes hold, less demand drives the price of gas lower. At what point is it too cheap to stock at a convenience store? Right now those stores are built around it, gas brings in visitors. If less people want gas, their whole model has to change. No c-stores around sort of means not many places to get gas. will battery prices ever go up?
  - 52-6F-62 9y ago
    That's an interesting path to go down. It's pretty hard to predict for certain. People thought that vinyl manufacturing would never exist again, but new "boutique" pressing plants have emerged over time with people dedicated and passionate about the design of the machines and the quality control process. I imagine you could see something similar with gas, though of course the scale is very different. My father was a pipe fitter in an oil refinery for ~30 years, and he started doing it because he loved the craft. Over the years the large companies' treatment of their employees made him a bit jaded, but if it's a smaller operation I imagine you could see passions emerge again. In spite of the obvious benefits of automated vehicles, especially for long trips, I can see some people still enjoying the feeling of driving on the open road. And even if automated vehicles are the prominent mode for long trips, there will still exist a need for rest stops, truck stops, etc. They just might be a little different. There could probably be boutique gas/fuel stores. Maybe someplace that offered charging stations, new fully-charged batteries, and various brands of artisan gasoline. And of course, they'd have a fridge full of Coca Cola and a shelf of chips and Oh Henry bars. Dammit, I'm seeing the makings of a fun fictional world here...
j7ake 9y ago
Even a fully electric car uses a substantial amount of petroleum based products
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  Likewise aircraft, which will not run practically on batteries for at least another decade. But the elimination of cars will decrease a volume of petroleum consumption large enough to pose an existential challenge to many oil companies.
- trentmb 9y ago
  At least that carbon is sequestered in the body of the car though?
  - amirmc 9y ago
    I think the point is that a lot was released in the manufacturing of those parts.
    - trentmb 9y ago
      That makes sense, thanks.
dreamcompiler 9y ago
I love my combustion cars too but the Tesla puts them all to shame. It's just better in every way but two: Initial price and range. Economies of scale and competition will fix the first and recharging stations have already mostly fixed the second. I encourage skeptics to drive one. It's an astonishing vehicle.
- peapicker 9y ago
  Range is key to me... I live in the southwest us, a drive to see family is 450-700 miles.
  - dreamcompiler 9y ago
    I live in the southwest US too, and the Tesla seemed impractical until about a year ago. Now, however, they have pretty good supercharger coverage. http://www.teslarati.com/map/ http://www.teslarati.com/map/
- peapicker 9y ago
  Range is key to me I live in the southwest us, a drive to see family is 450-700 miles.
- babyrainbow 9y ago
  > Tesla puts them all to shame. Too bad they can't get their seat belts to work.. http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN19R08Y-OCABS?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN19R08Y-OCA... https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ljmed/tesla_model_s_small_overlap_crash_test_acceptable/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ljmed/tesla_m...
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  Puts them to shame how? The Tesla standard of luxury is light years behind that of cars like the S Class. The standard of performance is strictly limited going from 0 to 60, and not sustaining it. I've driven it, and I've driven other high end cars of it offers very little that you can't find in other high end cars. The novelty of instant acceleration is fine, but the insulation from wind noise and road noise are still not on par with high end brands even though there's no ICE (and it's not because there's no ICE noise to cover up, in a modern S Class the cabin is almost whisper quiet), and if performance is you goal. You don't (knowledgeably) get a Tesla because you want the best car, you get one because you want a Tesla. To me cars like the S Class shame the Model S for trying to call itself a "luxury car", and cars like C63 AMGs shame it for calling itself a "performance sedan"

52-6F-62 9y ago

If it's any comfort, I don't think combustion engines will go anywhere. They will likely be relegated to a romantic niche, however. It happened with vinyl and film already, most famously. They were announced to have met their end and were doomed to be but a mark in history books, yet they've found their place. A fine-tuned masterpiece of mid-20th century automotive engineering is a thing of beauty, but it's not sustainable on a vast scale anymore -- and that's what we need for transportation now. We need transport on a vast scale -- a worldwide, ubiquitous, affordable scale. Everyone needs access without harming the planet that we so happily live upon. If it combustion engine vehicles become about beauty, they will last in some form. I hope they do.

TheCondor 9y ago
I've been pondering this. I think gasoline could become hard to get very rapidly. There are already fewer gas stations along the interstates as car ranges have increased. As electrification takes hold, less demand drives the price of gas lower. At what point is it too cheap to stock at a convenience store? Right now those stores are built around it, gas brings in visitors. If less people want gas, their whole model has to change. No c-stores around sort of means not many places to get gas. will battery prices ever go up?
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  That's an interesting path to go down. It's pretty hard to predict for certain. People thought that vinyl manufacturing would never exist again, but new "boutique" pressing plants have emerged over time with people dedicated and passionate about the design of the machines and the quality control process. I imagine you could see something similar with gas, though of course the scale is very different. My father was a pipe fitter in an oil refinery for ~30 years, and he started doing it because he loved the craft. Over the years the large companies' treatment of their employees made him a bit jaded, but if it's a smaller operation I imagine you could see passions emerge again. In spite of the obvious benefits of automated vehicles, especially for long trips, I can see some people still enjoying the feeling of driving on the open road. And even if automated vehicles are the prominent mode for long trips, there will still exist a need for rest stops, truck stops, etc. They just might be a little different. There could probably be boutique gas/fuel stores. Maybe someplace that offered charging stations, new fully-charged batteries, and various brands of artisan gasoline. And of course, they'd have a fridge full of Coca Cola and a shelf of chips and Oh Henry bars. Dammit, I'm seeing the makings of a fun fictional world here...

j7ake 9y ago

Even a fully electric car uses a substantial amount of petroleum based products

dreamcompiler 9y ago
Likewise aircraft, which will not run practically on batteries for at least another decade. But the elimination of cars will decrease a volume of petroleum consumption large enough to pose an existential challenge to many oil companies.
trentmb 9y ago
At least that carbon is sequestered in the body of the car though?
- amirmc 9y ago
  I think the point is that a lot was released in the manufacturing of those parts.
  - trentmb 9y ago
    That makes sense, thanks.

dreamcompiler 9y ago

I love my combustion cars too but the Tesla puts them all to shame. It's just better in every way but two: Initial price and range. Economies of scale and competition will fix the first and recharging stations have already mostly fixed the second. I encourage skeptics to drive one. It's an astonishing vehicle.

peapicker 9y ago
Range is key to me... I live in the southwest us, a drive to see family is 450-700 miles.
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  I live in the southwest US too, and the Tesla seemed impractical until about a year ago. Now, however, they have pretty good supercharger coverage. http://www.teslarati.com/map/ http://www.teslarati.com/map/
peapicker 9y ago
Range is key to me I live in the southwest us, a drive to see family is 450-700 miles.
babyrainbow 9y ago
> Tesla puts them all to shame. Too bad they can't get their seat belts to work.. http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN19R08Y-OCABS?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN19R08Y-OCA... https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ljmed/tesla_model_s_small_overlap_crash_test_acceptable/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ljmed/tesla_m...
BoorishBears 9y ago
Puts them to shame how? The Tesla standard of luxury is light years behind that of cars like the S Class. The standard of performance is strictly limited going from 0 to 60, and not sustaining it. I've driven it, and I've driven other high end cars of it offers very little that you can't find in other high end cars. The novelty of instant acceleration is fine, but the insulation from wind noise and road noise are still not on par with high end brands even though there's no ICE (and it's not because there's no ICE noise to cover up, in a modern S Class the cabin is almost whisper quiet), and if performance is you goal. You don't (knowledgeably) get a Tesla because you want the best car, you get one because you want a Tesla. To me cars like the S Class shame the Model S for trying to call itself a "luxury car", and cars like C63 AMGs shame it for calling itself a "performance sedan"