6 ms·

Emails show Kalanick's suspicions about Google's self-driving cars

13 points by malandrew 9y ago

dosgonlogs 9y ago
Hmmm. This changes things. Happy to see Google in the hot seat for once.
vivekd 9y ago
Kalanick was absolutely right to be panicking about self driving cars. The reason we pay a little more for taxis and ubers is that we have to pay for the person driving the cars. With a self driving taxi service, and no need to pay for a driver, the cost of hiring a ride would become much cheaper disrupting uber's business. * This post was Edited in reply to comment with an edit deleting criticism about intellectual property
- factsplease 9y ago
  Could you please keep your statements truthful. There is no proof that Kalanick or Uber stole anything from Waymo. There is an ongoing and unresolved court case to determine that. It's only appropriate to make such a statement, if it's proven that Uber stole anything. This is HN not reddit. Thus far, all we know is that Levandowsky alledgedly took files as leverage to make sure Google paid him the bonuses Google was late on, but he was expressively forbidden by Kalanick from bringing any of those files to Uber. All the discovery performed so far has turned up zero evidence that any files from Waymo ended up at Uber. It's not uncommon for legacy companies to sue newer, more nimble and more promising companies over IP issues when they lose star performers. It also happened to Google when Paypal sued them for trade secret theft when promising senior talent left Paypal to join Google Wallet: https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/26/paypal-lawsuit-google/ https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/26/paypal-lawsuit-google/ It's perfectly okay to recruit promising talent from other companies with better offers so long as the recruiting company keeps everything kosher via due diligence that ensures the talent does not bring intellectual property from the previous employer to the new company. All evidence made public thus far suggests the Uber did its due diligence here and made sure nothing belonging to Waymo made its way to Uber.
  - vivekd 9y ago
    That's a fair point, I edited my comment to get rid of the part about intellectual property violations in response to your comment.
  - ultimateedition 9y ago
    Are you a bot? The comment you replied to made no mention of Waymo or stealing.
    - factsplease 9y ago
      No, not a bot. The original comment made allegations of IP theft by Kalanick. It has since been edited.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Are you an Uber employee?
        malandrew 9y ago
        I've read the comment you're replying to a few times, and I'm curious why it matters if they are or not. For the purpose of contributing to this discussion, have they stated anything false or misrepresented anything? If so, you should present that as a retort instead, instead of questioning their identity. Furthermore, for authors of comments critical of Uber, do you also go out of your way to ask if they work for a competing company like Waymo, Google, Tesla or Lyft? Let's ask you that same question. Are you a Waymo, Google, Tesla or Lyft employee or shareholder?
        malandrew 9y ago
        Nevermind. I can answer that question for you. You're a Tesla shareholder. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354703
        9y ago
xiaoma 9y ago
How unusual is it for venture units like this to collect data from the companies they've invested in and then scale up competitors to the successful ones?
Aron 9y ago
Travis also tried to partner with Tesla on this by using Tesla as a source for the vehicles (not sure who was responsible in this case for the software -- prolly uber), and Musk declined. Soon thereafter, Musk published his grand plan part 2 for Tesla, which included a home grown ride-sharing network where in grand Musk style they are going to do everything themselves.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  If you have the vehicles, why partner with someone who just wrote a platform you can replicate yourself? Uber has no value to those doing the actual self-driving work. They are the MBA in your startup to the CTO building the actual product.
  - SilasX 9y ago
    That's like saying, if you make cars, why let Avis take the profits from renting them out? In both cases, because that car related business (rentals or ride hailing apps) is outside your core specialty.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      May the most efficient vertically integrated conglomerate win then.
      - malandrew 9y ago
        So to play devil's advocate if that's how you believe things will play out... what happens to the existing car companies once new car sales start dropping precipitously? There are more car manufacturers that will be fighting over the same shrinking pie of new car sales than there are global TNCs. Their valuations will likely drop to the point where they could become an acquisition target for Uber. The only competitive advantage Tesla has is in batteries, and that will likely become a commodity insofar as TNCs are concerned far before it's a competitive advantage. The daily driving distances a battery needs to support for TNC use is a lot lower than an individual looking to do long road trips.

13 points by malandrew 9y ago

Hmmm. This changes things. Happy to see Google in the hot seat for once.

Kalanick was absolutely right to be panicking about self driving cars. The reason we pay a little more for taxis and ubers is that we have to pay for the person driving the cars. With a self driving taxi service, and no need to pay for a driver, the cost of hiring a ride would become much cheaper disrupting uber's business. * This post was Edited in reply to comment with an edit deleting criticism about intellectual property

factsplease 9y ago
Could you please keep your statements truthful. There is no proof that Kalanick or Uber stole anything from Waymo. There is an ongoing and unresolved court case to determine that. It's only appropriate to make such a statement, if it's proven that Uber stole anything. This is HN not reddit. Thus far, all we know is that Levandowsky alledgedly took files as leverage to make sure Google paid him the bonuses Google was late on, but he was expressively forbidden by Kalanick from bringing any of those files to Uber. All the discovery performed so far has turned up zero evidence that any files from Waymo ended up at Uber. It's not uncommon for legacy companies to sue newer, more nimble and more promising companies over IP issues when they lose star performers. It also happened to Google when Paypal sued them for trade secret theft when promising senior talent left Paypal to join Google Wallet: https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/26/paypal-lawsuit-google/ https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/26/paypal-lawsuit-google/ It's perfectly okay to recruit promising talent from other companies with better offers so long as the recruiting company keeps everything kosher via due diligence that ensures the talent does not bring intellectual property from the previous employer to the new company. All evidence made public thus far suggests the Uber did its due diligence here and made sure nothing belonging to Waymo made its way to Uber.
- vivekd 9y ago
  That's a fair point, I edited my comment to get rid of the part about intellectual property violations in response to your comment.
- ultimateedition 9y ago
  Are you a bot? The comment you replied to made no mention of Waymo or stealing.
  - factsplease 9y ago
    No, not a bot. The original comment made allegations of IP theft by Kalanick. It has since been edited.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Are you an Uber employee?
      - malandrew 9y ago
        I've read the comment you're replying to a few times, and I'm curious why it matters if they are or not. For the purpose of contributing to this discussion, have they stated anything false or misrepresented anything? If so, you should present that as a retort instead, instead of questioning their identity. Furthermore, for authors of comments critical of Uber, do you also go out of your way to ask if they work for a competing company like Waymo, Google, Tesla or Lyft? Let's ask you that same question. Are you a Waymo, Google, Tesla or Lyft employee or shareholder?
        malandrew 9y ago
        Nevermind. I can answer that question for you. You're a Tesla shareholder. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354703
        9y ago

xiaoma 9y ago

How unusual is it for venture units like this to collect data from the companies they've invested in and then scale up competitors to the successful ones?

Aron 9y ago

Travis also tried to partner with Tesla on this by using Tesla as a source for the vehicles (not sure who was responsible in this case for the software -- prolly uber), and Musk declined. Soon thereafter, Musk published his grand plan part 2 for Tesla, which included a home grown ride-sharing network where in grand Musk style they are going to do everything themselves.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
If you have the vehicles, why partner with someone who just wrote a platform you can replicate yourself? Uber has no value to those doing the actual self-driving work. They are the MBA in your startup to the CTO building the actual product.
- SilasX 9y ago
  That's like saying, if you make cars, why let Avis take the profits from renting them out? In both cases, because that car related business (rentals or ride hailing apps) is outside your core specialty.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    May the most efficient vertically integrated conglomerate win then.
    - malandrew 9y ago
      So to play devil's advocate if that's how you believe things will play out... what happens to the existing car companies once new car sales start dropping precipitously? There are more car manufacturers that will be fighting over the same shrinking pie of new car sales than there are global TNCs. Their valuations will likely drop to the point where they could become an acquisition target for Uber. The only competitive advantage Tesla has is in batteries, and that will likely become a commodity insofar as TNCs are concerned far before it's a competitive advantage. The daily driving distances a battery needs to support for TNC use is a lot lower than an individual looking to do long road trips.