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That is a decent point. To write even a basic web app properly you need to know a half a dozen libraries. To deploy it you need to know even more plus probably

by throwaway2016a 9y ago

That is a decent point. To write even a basic web app properly you need to know a half a dozen libraries. To deploy it you need to know even more plus probably know about infrastructure and networking. Then to write the frontend you need to know several specifications and libraries for that as well. For many applications parallel and concurrent processing is not a nice to have but mandatory and apps can be distributed across hundreds of machine. I remember reading RFCs when I was getting started. You could learn all of HTTP by reading two RFCs. Now you have to read a dozen if you want comprehensive knowledge of just HTML.

keithnz 9y ago
you don't, install meteor, you can be writing a simple deployable web app in no time. Easier than I've ever known it, to the point I've helped non programmers get started with it and they can get productive with it pretty easily and deploy things for real use. Very few apps need to be distributed across hundreds of machines, but even there, there's so much tech available to make it pretty easy. No need to deal with the details of the nightmare that was RPC / DCOM / CORBA
- throwaway2016a 9y ago
  Meteor just defers the problem until you need to scale. It is also pretty hard to do security well with Meteor (not impossible, it can be done effectively, just really easy to mess up if you don't pay attention). You also may be right about hundreds but a great many apps need to be distributed across more than two. Edit: also, for the record, as a millennial I did have to deal with DCOM. Although granted most are shielded from it.
  - keithnz 9y ago
    so, it easy until you are super successful and need to scale big? ok...... this is fantastic :) Security isn't that hard, it has a user system built in, which gives you a boost, the problem you are trying to tell be about is, it's really easy to do things client side that you may not be careful enough.... But yes, in the future I expect we have better ways to approach security that will make it easier too.
    - throwaway2016a 9y ago
      The security issue is that by default it is easy to accidentally make it so that any user can see and edit every other user's data. The one Meteor project I worked on at scale we specifically wrote integration tests to try to read and write other user's data just to make sure we didn't have a hole open up. Because we did have a whole open up and we learned from our mistake. Part of the problem of Meteor is that it is "magic" in a lot of ways. Because so many things are so easy, when something doesn't work the way you want (like there is a performance issue) it is often difficult to figure out.

keithnz 9y ago

you don't, install meteor, you can be writing a simple deployable web app in no time. Easier than I've ever known it, to the point I've helped non programmers get started with it and they can get productive with it pretty easily and deploy things for real use. Very few apps need to be distributed across hundreds of machines, but even there, there's so much tech available to make it pretty easy. No need to deal with the details of the nightmare that was RPC / DCOM / CORBA

throwaway2016a 9y ago
Meteor just defers the problem until you need to scale. It is also pretty hard to do security well with Meteor (not impossible, it can be done effectively, just really easy to mess up if you don't pay attention). You also may be right about hundreds but a great many apps need to be distributed across more than two. Edit: also, for the record, as a millennial I did have to deal with DCOM. Although granted most are shielded from it.
- keithnz 9y ago
  so, it easy until you are super successful and need to scale big? ok...... this is fantastic :) Security isn't that hard, it has a user system built in, which gives you a boost, the problem you are trying to tell be about is, it's really easy to do things client side that you may not be careful enough.... But yes, in the future I expect we have better ways to approach security that will make it easier too.
  - throwaway2016a 9y ago
    The security issue is that by default it is easy to accidentally make it so that any user can see and edit every other user's data. The one Meteor project I worked on at scale we specifically wrote integration tests to try to read and write other user's data just to make sure we didn't have a hole open up. Because we did have a whole open up and we learned from our mistake. Part of the problem of Meteor is that it is "magic" in a lot of ways. Because so many things are so easy, when something doesn't work the way you want (like there is a performance issue) it is often difficult to figure out.