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Governments are a default state produced by groups of humans. They are inevitable. Making them better is incredibly hard work, but that is the only option. Oft

Governments are a default state produced by groups of humans. They are inevitable. Making them better is incredibly hard work, but that is the only option. Often times, they are improved by working outside the system itself, it seems. So there are some interesting options for tackling this hard problem. The company mentioned in the article may turn out to be a great example of this. Governments do come in many forms, with varying size, composition, and effectiveness. However, the ancap vision of no government and everything done by "voluntary" contract has no meaningful basis in reality at this point, as far as I can tell.

duncan_bayne 9y ago
I agree with you re. anarcho-capitalism. I think that a state is a prerequisite for capitalism. But that doesn't mean you couldn't a) pare back the state to the bare minimum functionality (which doesn't include garbage collection, IMO) and fund it voluntarily.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > But that doesn't mean you couldn't a) pare back the state to the bare minimum functionality (which doesn't include garbage collection, IMO) and fund it voluntarily. You could do that with the entity called “the state”, but that entity would no longer be the state or government, no matter what it was called. (It might be an arm of the real government, which might consist of entities voluntarily funding the “state” which themselves exercise coercive, in practice, extraction of wealth, or it might be an irrelevant figurehead.)
wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>However, the ancap vision of no government and everything done by "voluntary" contract has no meaningful basis in reality at this point What about tribal societies?
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  I'm talking about larger groups of humans. Things are very different when you have only a few hundred humans or less. Dunbar's number[1] is an important factor here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    Don't most people only have real social relationships with a few hundred people or less?
    - dwaltrip 9y ago
      Of course, but I'm not sure what that has to do with governance structures of societies.

duncan_bayne 9y ago

I agree with you re. anarcho-capitalism. I think that a state is a prerequisite for capitalism. But that doesn't mean you couldn't a) pare back the state to the bare minimum functionality (which doesn't include garbage collection, IMO) and fund it voluntarily.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> But that doesn't mean you couldn't a) pare back the state to the bare minimum functionality (which doesn't include garbage collection, IMO) and fund it voluntarily. You could do that with the entity called “the state”, but that entity would no longer be the state or government, no matter what it was called. (It might be an arm of the real government, which might consist of entities voluntarily funding the “state” which themselves exercise coercive, in practice, extraction of wealth, or it might be an irrelevant figurehead.)

wu-ikkyu 9y ago

>However, the ancap vision of no government and everything done by "voluntary" contract has no meaningful basis in reality at this point What about tribal societies?

dwaltrip 9y ago
I'm talking about larger groups of humans. Things are very different when you have only a few hundred humans or less. Dunbar's number[1] is an important factor here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  Don't most people only have real social relationships with a few hundred people or less?
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    Of course, but I'm not sure what that has to do with governance structures of societies.