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This is a very presumptive attitude to take which is not going to convince people on the fence on this topic who don't already agree with you. I suggest that i

This is a very presumptive attitude to take which is not going to convince people on the fence on this topic who don't already agree with you. I suggest that if you want to change minds and improve the status quo, you should engage these people who you find tiresome anyway. Not to persuade them, but the third-parties who will read the discussion and could be persuaded. Or, if that's too much work, simply don't engage, if only so you don't sabotage someone else's effort to persuade.

ubernostrum 9y ago
Read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14712546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14712546
- thehardsphere 9y ago
  I did. I don't think it's constructive to tell people to google it in that case either.
  - ubernostrum 9y ago
    OK. I can tell you right now, though, the people who will keep demanding sources and want to re-litigate even the existence of discrimination/bias, in every single thread which mentions the topic, will not be convinced by providing them walls of links and sources. They've already made up their minds, and the only thing they'd do in response is exactly what I said: nitpicks and non sequiturs and "well, I don't find that convincing..." and so what's the point? If someone is genuinely and truly unaware, they can use Google. If someone just wants to try to discredit a basic established fact about the world, it's not my job to coddle them or make them feel good about it or "engage" with them or make them feel that they were properly listened to and had their concerns addressed, any more than it would be my job to do that for someone who denies evolution.
    - thehardsphere 9y ago
      Right, it's not your job to do anything. It is perfectly valid for you to feel frustrated in exactly that way. All I am saying, is that their are third parties who you are not interacting with, who could be persuadeable, who will read that frustration and are going to find it alienating rather than persuasive, and therefore you end up creating more people in the world who think there is no real problem. It may be more constructive to simply disengage if you feel that exasperated by it. Both for persuading other people and for your own sanity. That's all I am saying.

ubernostrum 9y ago

Read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14712546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14712546

thehardsphere 9y ago
I did. I don't think it's constructive to tell people to google it in that case either.
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  OK. I can tell you right now, though, the people who will keep demanding sources and want to re-litigate even the existence of discrimination/bias, in every single thread which mentions the topic, will not be convinced by providing them walls of links and sources. They've already made up their minds, and the only thing they'd do in response is exactly what I said: nitpicks and non sequiturs and "well, I don't find that convincing..." and so what's the point? If someone is genuinely and truly unaware, they can use Google. If someone just wants to try to discredit a basic established fact about the world, it's not my job to coddle them or make them feel good about it or "engage" with them or make them feel that they were properly listened to and had their concerns addressed, any more than it would be my job to do that for someone who denies evolution.
  - thehardsphere 9y ago
    Right, it's not your job to do anything. It is perfectly valid for you to feel frustrated in exactly that way. All I am saying, is that their are third parties who you are not interacting with, who could be persuadeable, who will read that frustration and are going to find it alienating rather than persuasive, and therefore you end up creating more people in the world who think there is no real problem. It may be more constructive to simply disengage if you feel that exasperated by it. Both for persuading other people and for your own sanity. That's all I am saying.