7 ms·
That Misery Called Meditation
- michael_dorfman 16y agoI've never done a 7-day retreat-- 3 days is the most I've tried-- and although my experience was quite different than the one described here, it definitely was quite profound.
- danieldk 16y agoIt seemed very familiar, at least the motions the author has gone through. On my first retreat, after one day, I was absolutely sure that I wanted to leave. Sitting was painful, there was a lot of sleepiness, and I was longing for daily joys such as listening to music. And the mind is very well able to snowball unpleasanties :). After that first day, when I had the first talk with the meditation teacher, he made a joke about my mocking, subtle enough to make me smile. The discontent quickly melted away, and it suddenly became clear to me that I was suffering because I was craving for pleasantness. The following week had moments with intense joy, moments with intense pain. But it became easier to see them without clinging, giving a lot of peace. It's something definitely worth doing. Though it doesn't hurt starting with tiny steps, rather than cold-turkey ;).
- michael_dorfman 16y agoI've done a number of weekend retreats (and have a daily practice) but definitely plan on doing a 10-day retreat, when time permits, as I think the extended timeframe would be quite powerful.
- danieldk 16y agoIndeed. But daily practice is something to treasure :).
- flatline 16y agoI've done a couple 7 day retreats and have had some similar experiences to the author, though I'd already been doing meditation for a while so was more inclined to "just sit" from the start. The one thing that always impresses me is how much crap gets dredged out of your subconscious. Old fears, regrets, guilt, etc., would come to light and seem like an absolute crisis right in the moment. Then ten minutes later, I wouldn't be able to remember what I was so worried about. Definitely a worthwhile experience, and by the end of seven days, nothing could faze me, everything seemed carefree and effortless.
- ic3h 16y agoI guess you didn't bother to read the article beyond the title.
- novon 16y agoI see he went to an IMS retreat, the one I attended around Seattle was good - until the main teacher came in and gave us a 20 minute speech on why we should donate more money to his "begging bowl." That kind of ruined it for me... and they kept asking for donations afterwards. Once these groups become self-prepetuating institutions it's time to find something else. It's easier just to incorporate meditation into daily life and activities.
- humblepatience 16y agoAn interesting description of an experience - all I can say is, a 7 day retreat is probably a really, really bad idea for a beginner
- swombat 16y agoWhat do you reckon is the ideal way for a beginner to get into meditation, then? Particularly if that beginner lives in a busy, noisy place like London and has a busy, time-consuming jobs like running a start-up.
- thomas11 16y agoIdeally, you would find a regular meditation group that has one or two weekly sessions of maybe 30 minutes and some members with experience who can give you hints. That gives you a commitment to regular practice and a supportive group of peers without being too invasive. Skipping a week isn't a big deal, either.
- humblepatience 16y agoFrom what I've heard, it's practicing 10 minutes a day for a while. Going to a session helps too
- carbon8 16y agoLong meditation retreats for beginners are pretty standard. Repeatedly sticking a toe in the water doesn't really do much, you need to dive right in.
- humblepatience 16y agoI'm a big fan of `starting out slow.` Jumping into a 7 day retreat is not starting out slow. It's different for everyone what `slow` is, but if you're not sure if you're ready for a 7 day retreat and you go anyway you might end up like this guy (in the article).
- rsheridan6 16y agoHaving tried it both ways, I think beginning with thirty minutes a day or something like that is like trying to learn to swim in a bathtub. Unless you're on the edge of psychosis, a long retreat won't hurt you. There are rare horror stories about somebody going nuts, but that's probably about as common as somebody dying from a bee sting.
- subwindow 16y agoI read the first half of the article just screaming "He's doing it wrong!" However I later realized that was the entire point of the article.
- chipsy 16y agoIndeed. Meditation is kind of funny because it's dead simple - opportunities to practice it are plentiful - yet people have an incredibly hard time with it. They're going 90 miles an hour and it's like slamming on the brakes for them. For my part, I've decided there's nothing else I'd _rather_ be doing. It's the only thing in life I can reliably count on to provide a satisfying, enriching experience. The material/hedonistic experiences are still important to me, and most of my time is still spent on them, but they're all pretty transient in comparison.
- mcantor 16y agoMaybe it's because I went through a similar experience with meditation, or maybe the author used some clever foreshadowing that I can't consciously pick up on, but for some reason... I knew, as I read his recounting of the misery, that he would come around on page two. The description of pain in the neck and shoulders felt right, in that sense that the author seemed to be saying, "This is when I began to feel the stress I have carried with me for so many years."
- philk 16y agoI'm not really sure of the benefits of these big one off things; after seven days meditating you come back into your regular life, surrounded by your old environment and soon end up reverting to your previous mental patterns. It seems analogous to going on a running retreat, spending seven days running all day and then coming home and not running again. It strikes me that it would be more worthwhile to cultivate the habit of meditating once a day rather than making a large unsustainable change.
- astine 16y agoI disagree. I've been on retreats (not Buddhist ones but close enough.) One thing that a retreat will do that regular practice won't, is give you a taste of the mindset and attitude you are attempting to get. The author doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would have easily adopted a meditation regime. After this retreat, it seems like he might be more capable or at least motivated to integrate one.
- thomas11 16y agoThe idea is that you continue to meditate regularly after the retreat. It will be much less practice, but it will build on the experience and monumentum you got during the retreat.
- carbon8 16y agoIt's pretty much impossible to get as focused and steady in tiny spurts of meditation mixed in with the turmoil of daily life as it is when doing it essentially non-stop for days/weeks. Once you've dived into it deeply, then you actually have an understanding of what's going on when you do regular sittings.
- samatman 16y agoThink of meditation as a pot of water you're trying to boil away. A retreat is a chance to get that pot of water to a boil. Once there, a little meditation each day will continue to boil the pot. Without the focused immersion, a little heat each day might never boil the pot. Note that this works for languages, physical skills (aikido) and many other complex tasks.
- lacrossegm 16y agoTen to twenty minutes of quiet meditation is a nice stress reliever but an hour or longer is just wasted time.
- callahad 16y agoHow so?
- mcantor 16y agoan hour or longer is just wasted time. I think that's the point.
- zephjc 16y agoIt's only wasted time if that's your attitude about it.
- abdulhaq 16y agoIf you meditate on the correct things for an hour you might realise that actually it's your 50 hour-a-week job that is wasted time and taking a time-out to contemplate the bigger subjects is a far more useful pursuit.
- rikthevik 16y agoDoes anyone else ever get the desire to throw off the shackles of this Western society, renounce their possessions and go live in a monastery somewhere?
- pavel_lishin 16y agoYes, especially after reading Anathem. Then I realize that my refrigerator is full of delicious things, and that my friends mostly live in Western society.
- mcantor 16y agoDesire is the cause of all suffering, but there's also bacon.
- jw84 16y agoAttachment is the root of all suffering. The subtlety is that one may want but clinging onto that desire and not letting go creates pain.
- adammichaelc 16y agoJoy can't exist without suffering.
- rokhayakebe 16y agoBut you do not have to experience a feeling to fully enjoy its opposite.
- dasil003 16y agoDefine "fully"
- rokhayakebe 16y ago
- mcantor 16y agoMy Dad went to a zendo regularly for quite some time, when I was much younger. As a child, the concept of sitting and only sitting was mysterious to me, so I asked him why he did it. He told me that he wasn't sure, so he asked the head teacher at the zendo, and later recounted the exchange to me, which I have always valued as something of a modern koan in its own right: Dad: "So, sitting will definitely produce positive results if you do it for long enough, right? What if I sat for 20 years?" Master: "You mean, a guaranteed amount of enlightenment, however small?" Dad: "Exactly." Master: "The only thing I can guarantee you will get after 20 years of zazen is hemorrhoids."
- mannicken 16y agoOn my winter break last year, I spent two weeks meditating, lucid dreaming, astral projecting, OOBing, and smoking pot :) Scariest time of my life. Apparently meditation, when done with some skill is similar to third plateau of DXM. Doing it everyday made me feel extremely weird in normal life. Still recovering.
- roqetman 16y agoI spent a few days in a rinzai zen buddhist monastery in upstate New York about 3 weeks ago. I was also initially skeptical, and in a lot of pain. Doing the retreat with other newbies, and talking about the experience with the monks during the informal meetings really helped. I still feel the effects of it - my crazy schedules at work and tight deadlines just don't seem to bother me anymore. It's wearing off a bit now, but I still feel much more focused, peaceful and "together". I highly recommend it. - I only went for 3 days though, perhaps I'll consider a 7-day retreat someday.
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- r0s 16y agoCan anyone with experience recommend this kind of meditation to build discipline? Stress relief and mindfulness are great but not really my goal. I want more focus and energy.
- alexyim 16y agoIt seems like you have to have a particular mindset to practice meditation. For some reason, the concept of meditation is intuitive to me.. an analogy I feel like making is that it's similar to "reading between the lines." Yet at the same time, I understand the author's frustrations and I can't think of a way to make meditation work for him. Maybe meditation isn't for everyone.
- devinj 16y agoAm I the only person actually scared by what he went through? "Zombie" seems quite apt. I don't want to be an automaton.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]