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The "visual introduction"[1] presents some IMO compelling evidence. I'm well aware of our strong confirmation bias and the tendency of our brains to detect pat

by pygy_ 16y ago

The "visual introduction"[1] presents some IMO compelling evidence. I'm well aware of our strong confirmation bias and the tendency of our brains to detect patterns where none are to be found, but some other examples are striking, like the definition of the golden ratio place at 61.7% of a dialog, for example, and other patterns in the structure of he dialogs at 1/4 of the notes interval (with some nice meta patterns where discussion about music/ harmonics occurs on key intervals). The author also states that stichometry is mentioned either in a dialogue or in a text written by a disciple of Plato ( I don't remember, and I'm typing this on my phone which makes cross checking a bit of a chore). Suspicion is legitimate, since this field is dominated by cranks. The auhtor is well aware of this fact, btw, which in my eyes makes him brave because of he discredit this kind of research can lead to in accademic circles. [1] http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/jay.kennedy/Kennedy_Visual_Intro.pdf http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/jay.kennedy/Kenn...

tmsh 16y ago
Very true. I admire his bravery a lot. And I did relook again at that "visual introduction", thanks. If we could see an actual mini version of the lines of the text for the texs in questions, zoomed out and color coordinated, that might help too. But you're right, that bit about the golden ratio is pretty convincing. However, is it a reach to think that the 'philosophical mean' in the Apology at around the same spot is on purpose? I don't know. Stichometry seems much more poetic. Plato just didn't ever quite strike me as the poetic type. But maybe...
- pygy_ 16y ago
  I think it's more about steganography than about poetry. The presence of mathematical patterns is very plausible, and their Puthagorean origin is probable (the musical scale he allegedly used is of Pythagorean origin, and he has been hanging out with some of them. Puthagoreans were to my knowledge the first initiatic society in occident. They were very secretive and relied on oral transmission for most of their teachings. Rational numbers and the law of harmony had a metaphysical/mystic meaning to them. IIRC, the poor dude who first proved that sqrt(2) is irrational was thrown at sea with a boulder tied to its ankles. Regarding the presence of the "mean" word at ~61.8% of multiple texts, if the same word is used at that very spot and only there in several texts it has probably been placed there intentionaly, possibly to tie its meaning to Pythagorean symbolism/mysticism. He might also have been enjoying the activity of concealing math references for its own sake. Being highly intellectual, he might actually have been of the geeky type :-). Since the Greeks didn't have any jargon for discussing about math, they just overloaded other common words to communicate mathematical ideas; it would be Quite amusing to discover that he sprikled its work with math puns :-). This is of course highly speculative, but it's so fun to play this kind of detective games.

by pygy_ 16y ago

tmsh 16y ago

Very true. I admire his bravery a lot. And I did relook again at that "visual introduction", thanks. If we could see an actual mini version of the lines of the text for the texs in questions, zoomed out and color coordinated, that might help too. But you're right, that bit about the golden ratio is pretty convincing. However, is it a reach to think that the 'philosophical mean' in the Apology at around the same spot is on purpose? I don't know. Stichometry seems much more poetic. Plato just didn't ever quite strike me as the poetic type. But maybe...

pygy_ 16y ago
I think it's more about steganography than about poetry. The presence of mathematical patterns is very plausible, and their Puthagorean origin is probable (the musical scale he allegedly used is of Pythagorean origin, and he has been hanging out with some of them. Puthagoreans were to my knowledge the first initiatic society in occident. They were very secretive and relied on oral transmission for most of their teachings. Rational numbers and the law of harmony had a metaphysical/mystic meaning to them. IIRC, the poor dude who first proved that sqrt(2) is irrational was thrown at sea with a boulder tied to its ankles. Regarding the presence of the "mean" word at ~61.8% of multiple texts, if the same word is used at that very spot and only there in several texts it has probably been placed there intentionaly, possibly to tie its meaning to Pythagorean symbolism/mysticism. He might also have been enjoying the activity of concealing math references for its own sake. Being highly intellectual, he might actually have been of the geeky type :-). Since the Greeks didn't have any jargon for discussing about math, they just overloaded other common words to communicate mathematical ideas; it would be Quite amusing to discover that he sprikled its work with math puns :-). This is of course highly speculative, but it's so fun to play this kind of detective games.