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You think that money is the key to scaling up new manufacturing lines, when in fact new manufacturing lines scales up through really hard engineering, and no go

You think that money is the key to scaling up new manufacturing lines, when in fact new manufacturing lines scales up through really hard engineering, and no good, driven, or genius engineer is going to go work for Ford or GM regardless of pay. They want to work at Tesla where they can actually have autonomy and decision making power. Interviews of SpaceX and Tesla engineers show how much they've grown out of the conservative engineering molds they found at large, bureaucratic companies like Ford and GM. Edit: Basically Ford and GM are manager driven. They are about small, incremental change where you don't change too much too fast. And you are one cog in a line of 50 cogs. At Tesla it's cutthroat and bloody, so if you get recognition and clout early on, then you basically get to do whatever you want. At least that's my understanding and that's the understanding that good engineers have

scottLobster 9y ago
So in your mind there are no good engineers who prioritize their families and don't want to work weekends? No good engineers with sick/infirm relatives who need care outside of work? No good engineers who are turned off by (according to you) the need to be "cut-throat and bloody" at what's supposed to be a constructive, team-based endeavor? No good engineers who can't or won't just uproot themselves and their families on a whim? Right now I work 60 hours a week between my current job and side projects, and while I'd love to work for SpaceX or Tesla from a professional standpoint (my 3rd-grader self literally drew "designs" in pencil for warp drives after watching Star Trek with dad), the fiancée and I are probably going to have kids in the next 3-4 years, and she has her own career to think about. At that point I imagine I'll cut back on the side projects as well as take time off from work here and there to help her out. From what I've heard I doubt I could do that at Tesla/SpaceX without professional consequences. But I guess that just makes me a shitty engineer who is simply incapable of doing something as god-like as helping scale a production line. :P The issue at the traditional manufactures is leadership, not talent. If the leadership reforms and adapts the talent will be there. That's a large if, but certainly not improbable if Tesla seriously threatens their core business.
- crush-n-spread 9y ago
  To answer your first question, a strong yes. You are a worse engineer for not losing your family over it. That's a hard pill to swallow for everyone but it's also true; the engineer that lives in his work will be better than you and might be 2-5x more effective than you at any given company. What the issue is at traditional companies doesn't matter, the fact is that they suck and they cultivate lazy engineering. I hope that 100,000 engineers kill themselves working for Tesla because humanity itself will not survive without their effort, and then the trillions of humans that have lived and died will have done so in vain, and all of that is much more important than your kid's star trek drawings and warm-fuzzies.
  - quickthrower 9y ago
    Most of us are not saving humanity in our jobs. We're helping some other people get rich (or lots of people save for their retirement). What we put in is an expense and what we get out is profit. We should think of THAT like a small business in itself. In that regard, while I'm not saying how many hours you should or shouldn't work it's something to bear in mind. Working your ass off when it doesn't stack up to do so is simply stupid. Now for some stacking up could mean saving the planet. For others it could be earning enough to support their family and having some time to spend with them. I believe family structure is important for the human race to exist. Growth at any cost has got us into the mess where we are worried about bailing out of this planet ASAP. It's a more nuanced picture than you seem inclined to believe.
  - outworlder 9y ago
    I felt compelled to downvote due to the tone of this answer. But I'll try to resist that temptation. Objectively speaking, someone who does not have a family can work more hours, not necessarily produce better work. But they can, potentially, as long as the "extra" hours are also focused on work. Not sure how long that is sustainable. I'd like to ask this: if we need to kill hundreds of thousands of people to try to save the human race, are we even left with something worth saving? It is not clear to me that workers need to sacrifice themselves to death in order for us to survive. There is no evidence of any impending catastrophe that would require such sacrifice.

scottLobster 9y ago

So in your mind there are no good engineers who prioritize their families and don't want to work weekends? No good engineers with sick/infirm relatives who need care outside of work? No good engineers who are turned off by (according to you) the need to be "cut-throat and bloody" at what's supposed to be a constructive, team-based endeavor? No good engineers who can't or won't just uproot themselves and their families on a whim? Right now I work 60 hours a week between my current job and side projects, and while I'd love to work for SpaceX or Tesla from a professional standpoint (my 3rd-grader self literally drew "designs" in pencil for warp drives after watching Star Trek with dad), the fiancée and I are probably going to have kids in the next 3-4 years, and she has her own career to think about. At that point I imagine I'll cut back on the side projects as well as take time off from work here and there to help her out. From what I've heard I doubt I could do that at Tesla/SpaceX without professional consequences. But I guess that just makes me a shitty engineer who is simply incapable of doing something as god-like as helping scale a production line. :P The issue at the traditional manufactures is leadership, not talent. If the leadership reforms and adapts the talent will be there. That's a large if, but certainly not improbable if Tesla seriously threatens their core business.

crush-n-spread 9y ago
To answer your first question, a strong yes. You are a worse engineer for not losing your family over it. That's a hard pill to swallow for everyone but it's also true; the engineer that lives in his work will be better than you and might be 2-5x more effective than you at any given company. What the issue is at traditional companies doesn't matter, the fact is that they suck and they cultivate lazy engineering. I hope that 100,000 engineers kill themselves working for Tesla because humanity itself will not survive without their effort, and then the trillions of humans that have lived and died will have done so in vain, and all of that is much more important than your kid's star trek drawings and warm-fuzzies.
- quickthrower 9y ago
  Most of us are not saving humanity in our jobs. We're helping some other people get rich (or lots of people save for their retirement). What we put in is an expense and what we get out is profit. We should think of THAT like a small business in itself. In that regard, while I'm not saying how many hours you should or shouldn't work it's something to bear in mind. Working your ass off when it doesn't stack up to do so is simply stupid. Now for some stacking up could mean saving the planet. For others it could be earning enough to support their family and having some time to spend with them. I believe family structure is important for the human race to exist. Growth at any cost has got us into the mess where we are worried about bailing out of this planet ASAP. It's a more nuanced picture than you seem inclined to believe.
- outworlder 9y ago
  I felt compelled to downvote due to the tone of this answer. But I'll try to resist that temptation. Objectively speaking, someone who does not have a family can work more hours, not necessarily produce better work. But they can, potentially, as long as the "extra" hours are also focused on work. Not sure how long that is sustainable. I'd like to ask this: if we need to kill hundreds of thousands of people to try to save the human race, are we even left with something worth saving? It is not clear to me that workers need to sacrifice themselves to death in order for us to survive. There is no evidence of any impending catastrophe that would require such sacrifice.