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GS is somewhat notorious for this kind of manipulations: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 http://www.rolling

GS is somewhat notorious for this kind of manipulations: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american...

keketi 9y ago
If the manipulation works, was it really manipulation?
- SEJeff 9y ago
  The SEC generally thinks so, and punishes those found guilty with hefty legal fines.
  - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
    Pretty sure SEC fines are just cost-of-doing-business territory for the likes of Goldman.
    - ethan_g 9y ago
      No, this is not the approach at any of the large banks. It's not the fine that kills you. It's when your customers lose your trust and no one trades with you any more. Goldman has a ton of competitors in all their businesses that would pounce on any angle they could use to lure away customers. Committing fraud, etc, is a quick way to lose all your customers. Plus the SEC and other regulators have a lot of political pressure to nail the big banks for any misbehavior. Big banks are paranoid about these things and have huge compliance departments to minimize the chance of anything going wrong with a regulator.
- gruturo 9y ago
  Absolutely, and it should be illegal, with harsh punishments which are actually doled out
- ouid 9y ago
  what?
  - keketi 9y ago
    If you signal to the market that a stock is overvalued and the market agrees, where's the manipulation?
    - ouid 9y ago
      If you signal a thing that you don't believe, as is assumed that GS was doing in the hypothetical you are responding to, then you have behaved deceptively. You are free to argue that GS does believe that Tesla is overvalued, but it is not relevant to an argument which explicitly assumes the opposite.
    - 0x00000000 9y ago
      >the market agrees The what now? Oh, those bots that scrape news articles?
    - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
      Uh...that's basically the definition of manipulation. I'd probably bet my life that GS did a short sell on TSLA before putting out that article.
ProAm 9y ago
"The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." [1] [1] http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american...
- 0xbear 9y ago
  Taibbi has published "Griftopia", a book which I heartily recommend. Perhaps the least partisan of his works, because everyone in it gets it: republicans and democrats alike. Even Obama, believe it or not. He has a knack for explaining complex things in simple ways without cutting that many corners to make them understandable by mere mortals. If you are to this day not entirely sure why the financial crisis happened, you need to read this book. Dude really reminds me of the late Hunter S Thompson.
- Qub3d 9y ago
  This article goes on to suggest that Goldman Sachs orchestrated global warming so it could profit on cap and trade. Seems a bit like Epileptic Trees[0] to me. [0]:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees

keketi 9y ago

If the manipulation works, was it really manipulation?

SEJeff 9y ago
The SEC generally thinks so, and punishes those found guilty with hefty legal fines.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  Pretty sure SEC fines are just cost-of-doing-business territory for the likes of Goldman.
  - ethan_g 9y ago
    No, this is not the approach at any of the large banks. It's not the fine that kills you. It's when your customers lose your trust and no one trades with you any more. Goldman has a ton of competitors in all their businesses that would pounce on any angle they could use to lure away customers. Committing fraud, etc, is a quick way to lose all your customers. Plus the SEC and other regulators have a lot of political pressure to nail the big banks for any misbehavior. Big banks are paranoid about these things and have huge compliance departments to minimize the chance of anything going wrong with a regulator.
gruturo 9y ago
Absolutely, and it should be illegal, with harsh punishments which are actually doled out
ouid 9y ago
what?
- keketi 9y ago
  If you signal to the market that a stock is overvalued and the market agrees, where's the manipulation?
  - ouid 9y ago
    If you signal a thing that you don't believe, as is assumed that GS was doing in the hypothetical you are responding to, then you have behaved deceptively. You are free to argue that GS does believe that Tesla is overvalued, but it is not relevant to an argument which explicitly assumes the opposite.
  - 0x00000000 9y ago
    >the market agrees The what now? Oh, those bots that scrape news articles?
  - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
    Uh...that's basically the definition of manipulation. I'd probably bet my life that GS did a short sell on TSLA before putting out that article.

ProAm 9y ago

"The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." [1] [1] http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american...

0xbear 9y ago
Taibbi has published "Griftopia", a book which I heartily recommend. Perhaps the least partisan of his works, because everyone in it gets it: republicans and democrats alike. Even Obama, believe it or not. He has a knack for explaining complex things in simple ways without cutting that many corners to make them understandable by mere mortals. If you are to this day not entirely sure why the financial crisis happened, you need to read this book. Dude really reminds me of the late Hunter S Thompson.
Qub3d 9y ago
This article goes on to suggest that Goldman Sachs orchestrated global warming so it could profit on cap and trade. Seems a bit like Epileptic Trees[0] to me. [0]:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees