5 ms·

>Take the "black lives matter" movement. If we followed the OPs advice, they should just protest that "all lives matter" instead, That might have been more eff

>Take the "black lives matter" movement. If we followed the OPs advice, they should just protest that "all lives matter" instead, That might have been more effective, even if it isn't as fair or correct. Hard to say, but in the lead up to the the latest US presidential election, there were many movements that I absolutely agreed with that I wish had shut up for just 1 year, because I could seem them fueling resentment on 'the other side' much more than energizing their own side. The rural side of my family was in the middle of being completely out of their minds over having a black president and gay marriage made legal when media started pushing for black lives matter and transgenders in bathrooms. They revolted, and now we have a moron as a president. "Deepened the divide" indeed. This may be an evolution in my own thinking, that there can be more important things than being "right". Think long term.

rectang 9y ago
The Civil War begat the Reconstruction. Two steps forward, one step back.
- larsiusprime 9y ago
  Now imagine if we could have ended slavery and found a way to resolve things peacefully without escalating into a brutal war that killed 2% of the population, with massive suffering on both sides.
  - phlakaton 9y ago
    I'm personally convinced we couldn't. The blood was already on our hands when we decided to start counting slaves as 3/5 of a non-voting person. Of course, those who passed this compromise may have been thinking: well let's not rock the boat or we won't have a Constitution! So maybe let's wait a year or five and revisit... How did that work out for them? Or the slaves?
eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
I think the main problem with this line of thinking is that "if only they could have waited 1 year" ends up translating to 5 years, then 10, or never. MLK went through this with Lyndon Johnson, who also wanted him to wait due to political expediency. It's also a lot easier to tell someone else to wait when you're not the one that has had their rights violated. If these are truly rights and not privileges, then waiting any time at all really makes no sense. I do understand what you're saying, thinking about the bigger picture, but I think it's dangerous path. We have to accept some short-term losses for the greater good. It could be argued that Obamacare was the reason Congress was handed over to the GOP. But now look at how the discussion has changed in America about healthcare -- it's less about whether people should be covered and mostly about what it's going to cost in premiums. Just a hypothetical, but can you imagine any of the gun owners in America going along with a "just wait" strategy if Obama had banned guns?
omegaworks 9y ago
>They revolted Hardly[0]. Don't believe the hype. The GOP won using gerrymandering, voter-suppression tactics and clever electoral positioning. Its tools: Voter ID laws and propaganda that deactivated potential voters. 0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/swing-state-margins/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-electi...
- tracker1 9y ago
  The VAST majority of voters have ID, and it's relatively easy to get one. Most people need one to function in society, and in many states you register to vote in the same place you get an ID anyhow. Perhaps you can point to a few examples where more than one or two people were singled out who wanted to vote but were unable to because of the requirement for ID. It's been shown that voter fraud in several districts was much higher than previously expected or proposed. I'm against a lot of the propaganda, and frankly the gerrymandering pisses me off to no end. But saying that requiring an ID to vote is excessive is pretty much out of line with the reality of living in society today.
  - tracker1 9y ago
    Perhaps better questions... do you have ID? do YOU know anyone without ID who is registered to vote?
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    1. There's a reason Rebublicans want that ID. 2. They know most poor people have enough obstacles just waking up. 3. Why make grandma, who can't drive, has health problems, go down to DMV and get an ID? Especially, when their isn't a proplem with voter fraud? 4. Rebublicans know that just a bit of extra effort will cause the disenfranchised to stay home that day. The head honchos in charge of Government entitlements know that if they make it a bit more difficult to qualify; most people will just not bother to apply. It's not rocket science. 5. Hell--the rich figured it out long ago. Take away a few obstacles that most young people gave to deal with, and in a few years with the right incentives, and support, you will have a young, budding capitalist. You will never take away that stupid look in portraits though.

rectang 9y ago

The Civil War begat the Reconstruction. Two steps forward, one step back.

larsiusprime 9y ago
Now imagine if we could have ended slavery and found a way to resolve things peacefully without escalating into a brutal war that killed 2% of the population, with massive suffering on both sides.
- phlakaton 9y ago
  I'm personally convinced we couldn't. The blood was already on our hands when we decided to start counting slaves as 3/5 of a non-voting person. Of course, those who passed this compromise may have been thinking: well let's not rock the boat or we won't have a Constitution! So maybe let's wait a year or five and revisit... How did that work out for them? Or the slaves?

eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago

I think the main problem with this line of thinking is that "if only they could have waited 1 year" ends up translating to 5 years, then 10, or never. MLK went through this with Lyndon Johnson, who also wanted him to wait due to political expediency. It's also a lot easier to tell someone else to wait when you're not the one that has had their rights violated. If these are truly rights and not privileges, then waiting any time at all really makes no sense. I do understand what you're saying, thinking about the bigger picture, but I think it's dangerous path. We have to accept some short-term losses for the greater good. It could be argued that Obamacare was the reason Congress was handed over to the GOP. But now look at how the discussion has changed in America about healthcare -- it's less about whether people should be covered and mostly about what it's going to cost in premiums. Just a hypothetical, but can you imagine any of the gun owners in America going along with a "just wait" strategy if Obama had banned guns?

omegaworks 9y ago

>They revolted Hardly[0]. Don't believe the hype. The GOP won using gerrymandering, voter-suppression tactics and clever electoral positioning. Its tools: Voter ID laws and propaganda that deactivated potential voters. 0. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/swing-state-margins/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-electi...

tracker1 9y ago
The VAST majority of voters have ID, and it's relatively easy to get one. Most people need one to function in society, and in many states you register to vote in the same place you get an ID anyhow. Perhaps you can point to a few examples where more than one or two people were singled out who wanted to vote but were unable to because of the requirement for ID. It's been shown that voter fraud in several districts was much higher than previously expected or proposed. I'm against a lot of the propaganda, and frankly the gerrymandering pisses me off to no end. But saying that requiring an ID to vote is excessive is pretty much out of line with the reality of living in society today.
- tracker1 9y ago
  Perhaps better questions... do you have ID? do YOU know anyone without ID who is registered to vote?
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  1. There's a reason Rebublicans want that ID. 2. They know most poor people have enough obstacles just waking up. 3. Why make grandma, who can't drive, has health problems, go down to DMV and get an ID? Especially, when their isn't a proplem with voter fraud? 4. Rebublicans know that just a bit of extra effort will cause the disenfranchised to stay home that day. The head honchos in charge of Government entitlements know that if they make it a bit more difficult to qualify; most people will just not bother to apply. It's not rocket science. 5. Hell--the rich figured it out long ago. Take away a few obstacles that most young people gave to deal with, and in a few years with the right incentives, and support, you will have a young, budding capitalist. You will never take away that stupid look in portraits though.