4 ms·

That may be good for one individual business, but not good for the segment of the population that's disabled. For example: restaurants. Take a world where rest

That may be good for one individual business, but not good for the segment of the population that's disabled. For example: restaurants. Take a world where restaurants have to comply with ADA regulations versus a world where it's expected that someone coming up with a business plan for a restaurant that caters to the disabled. It's the difference between a world where the disabled can go to restaurants or where they can got to a restaurant.

avar 9y ago
I live in a central European city full of restaurants that would be sued out of existence if they were in the states for ADA violations. The ADA also means that a lot of hole in the wall establishments you see in Europe simply can't exist in the states. Society is poorer for it.
- isleyaardvark 9y ago
  If you think society is poorer when we do things like make it possible for the disabled to go to restaurants, then I don't know what to say to you. At best, I could link to this opinion piece: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-expla...
  - avar 9y ago
    I'm simply pointing out that if you'd like to imagine a world where the ADA doesn't exist perhaps you can help yourself to a $500 plane ticket and say fly to Japan or Europe. I was mainly responding to your hyperbolic statement that the disabled could go to "a restaurant". You'll find that the disabled have plenty of options, it's definitely not the case that if you don't say enforce wheelchair accessibility for seating areas that there are no restaurants around to accommodate the disabled. But you do get a lot of hole in the wall places of a type I simply haven't seen in the US, e.g. what would be a very small take-away restaurant in the US, but with a ceiling high enough to have an upstairs floor accessible through some very steep set of stairs to get to a seating area. That's what I mean by society being poorer for it. It's not a choice between waiving a magic wand to make everything wonderful for the disabled or not. Complying with what amounts to onerous building codes can cost a lot, and often that cost is so high that the establishment isn't viable anymore.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      In that same society, disabled individuals must pay $5,000 for a plane ticket, because only one airline will support them and space is at a premium. They are limited to a small handful of chain restaurants which charge three times the prices of your "hole in the wall" restaurants. I'd much rather live in a society where I pay a small premium (even if that premium is the loss of a few restaurants) so that if my legs give out, I can continue to participate in society; not just a small portion of it. Accommodating disabilities today is accommodating yourself in the future.
      - kalleboo 9y ago
        Except that disabled people DON'T have to pay $5,000 for a plane ticket in Europe or Japan.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        > I'd much rather live in a society where I pay a small premium You don't, small businesses do. Plus, there are plenty places in Europe that cater to people in wheelchairs, it's just not mandated for all.
    - isleyaardvark 9y ago
      > It's not a choice between waiving a magic wand to make everything wonderful for the disabled or not. Well, that's not the ADA. And you're right, I can fly to Japan or Europe. People with disabilities are quite clear on the difference: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1673691 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1673691 https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/traveling-with-a-disability-in-europe/2013/07/25/0dc6ecea-c3f7-11e2-8c3b-0b5e9247e8ca_story.html?utm_term=.5ffdc0fcce06 https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/traveling-wi... Which is one reason why, as this article puts it, "The Americans With Disabilities Act Is a Model for the World — Literally" http://fpif.org/the-americans-with-disabilities-act-is-a-model-for-the-world-literally/ http://fpif.org/the-americans-with-disabilities-act-is-a-mod...
      - avar 9y ago
- s73ver 9y ago
  Is it? The disabled are part of society, too.

avar 9y ago

I live in a central European city full of restaurants that would be sued out of existence if they were in the states for ADA violations. The ADA also means that a lot of hole in the wall establishments you see in Europe simply can't exist in the states. Society is poorer for it.

isleyaardvark 9y ago
If you think society is poorer when we do things like make it possible for the disabled to go to restaurants, then I don't know what to say to you. At best, I could link to this opinion piece: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-expla...
- avar 9y ago
  I'm simply pointing out that if you'd like to imagine a world where the ADA doesn't exist perhaps you can help yourself to a $500 plane ticket and say fly to Japan or Europe. I was mainly responding to your hyperbolic statement that the disabled could go to "a restaurant". You'll find that the disabled have plenty of options, it's definitely not the case that if you don't say enforce wheelchair accessibility for seating areas that there are no restaurants around to accommodate the disabled. But you do get a lot of hole in the wall places of a type I simply haven't seen in the US, e.g. what would be a very small take-away restaurant in the US, but with a ceiling high enough to have an upstairs floor accessible through some very steep set of stairs to get to a seating area. That's what I mean by society being poorer for it. It's not a choice between waiving a magic wand to make everything wonderful for the disabled or not. Complying with what amounts to onerous building codes can cost a lot, and often that cost is so high that the establishment isn't viable anymore.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    In that same society, disabled individuals must pay $5,000 for a plane ticket, because only one airline will support them and space is at a premium. They are limited to a small handful of chain restaurants which charge three times the prices of your "hole in the wall" restaurants. I'd much rather live in a society where I pay a small premium (even if that premium is the loss of a few restaurants) so that if my legs give out, I can continue to participate in society; not just a small portion of it. Accommodating disabilities today is accommodating yourself in the future.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      Except that disabled people DON'T have to pay $5,000 for a plane ticket in Europe or Japan.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      > I'd much rather live in a society where I pay a small premium You don't, small businesses do. Plus, there are plenty places in Europe that cater to people in wheelchairs, it's just not mandated for all.
  - isleyaardvark 9y ago
    > It's not a choice between waiving a magic wand to make everything wonderful for the disabled or not. Well, that's not the ADA. And you're right, I can fly to Japan or Europe. People with disabilities are quite clear on the difference: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1673691 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1673691 https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/traveling-with-a-disability-in-europe/2013/07/25/0dc6ecea-c3f7-11e2-8c3b-0b5e9247e8ca_story.html?utm_term=.5ffdc0fcce06 https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/traveling-wi... Which is one reason why, as this article puts it, "The Americans With Disabilities Act Is a Model for the World — Literally" http://fpif.org/the-americans-with-disabilities-act-is-a-model-for-the-world-literally/ http://fpif.org/the-americans-with-disabilities-act-is-a-mod...
    - avar 9y ago
s73ver 9y ago
Is it? The disabled are part of society, too.