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Retirement = freedom. I don't know about you, but I want the freedom to not have to work for anybody else.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
No, Power & Wealth = Freedom. The freedom to act as you want and to prevent others from acting on you. Retirement means you have taken yourself out of the power dynamic and limited your wealth potential.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  What exactly is the point of having wealth if you have to put up with the same ol' rat race?
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    Not being the OP, I can't speak for them, but it's worth noting that most people who are very wealthy but still work sure ain't participating in the same rat race you and I are... ... well, assuming you, like me, aren't fabulously wealthy, anyway. ;)
  - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
    Cause it ceases to be a "rat race" when you control the rules of the race.
    - gorkonsine 9y ago
      How exactly is someone with enough money to retire able to control the rules of the race? We're talking about real people here, people who have enough money to pay off a middle-class house and live off investments, not mega-wealthy people able to buy a mega-yacht like Paul Allen. Some middle-class guy who has enough money to retire is NOT going to be able to enjoy the workplace of his dreams working for someone else. The rational thing for him to do is retire and work on his own personal projects at home in peace.
      - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        people who have enough money to pay off a middle-class house and live off investments Because that's not freedom. That's some middling low rent outcome. Freedom means I don't have to wait in line if I don't want to. That if a hurricane comes through and destroys my house, I can just move to another one without trouble. That if I get Liver cancer, I can buy a house in Tennessee and skip the donor wait list in California (Like Steve Jobs did). It means the local cops won't bully me and my family because I paid for all of their fancy new equipment. Etc... Freedom is not sitting idle in some garage fiddling with some bullshit. It's about being able to act with as wide as options as possible.
        gorkonsine 9y ago
        So what the hell are you arguing for anyway? Becoming a multi-millionaire? That's simply not possible for most people. What the hell is your point?
        AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        The example I gave was for someone who wants financial freedom. Well some piddly dividends from a whole market index fund isn't financial freedom, its the appearance of it. So if you want financial freedom that won't get you there. The point is that we shouldn't be advocating for middling outcomes and some fake version of freedom defined by leisure. It's not about being a millionaire its about leading an impactful option filled life. You can do that without money. There is a whole trend of bucking the idea of having a huge vision and working to make that happen. Rejecting the idea that our work shouldn't be the most important thing in our lives. Your work, is how you engage with the world. Your job sucks, ok then do something else, move, shed the restrictions keeping you from doing it. People lock themselves into these cycles aka rat races where they are working bullshit jobs for inefficient exploitative markets. Stop, and go and make an impact. Stop with the idea that working for 20 years and then taking the rest of your life off is the best use of your talent. Oh but they say I have a family to feed, and I have health problems etc... Guess what, they'll figure it out. Kids are tough and resilient. Move somewhere with better health care, restructure your life to minimize the impacts. There are ways to do it.
- RealityNow 9y ago
  You're being pedantic. When I said retirement, I was obviously referring to financial independence. Financial independence is what enables a person to spend their time doing whatever it is they want, ie. freedom.

No, Power & Wealth = Freedom. The freedom to act as you want and to prevent others from acting on you. Retirement means you have taken yourself out of the power dynamic and limited your wealth potential.

gorkonsine 9y ago
What exactly is the point of having wealth if you have to put up with the same ol' rat race?
- zzalpha 9y ago
  Not being the OP, I can't speak for them, but it's worth noting that most people who are very wealthy but still work sure ain't participating in the same rat race you and I are... ... well, assuming you, like me, aren't fabulously wealthy, anyway. ;)
- AndrewKemendo 9y ago
  Cause it ceases to be a "rat race" when you control the rules of the race.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    How exactly is someone with enough money to retire able to control the rules of the race? We're talking about real people here, people who have enough money to pay off a middle-class house and live off investments, not mega-wealthy people able to buy a mega-yacht like Paul Allen. Some middle-class guy who has enough money to retire is NOT going to be able to enjoy the workplace of his dreams working for someone else. The rational thing for him to do is retire and work on his own personal projects at home in peace.
    - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
      people who have enough money to pay off a middle-class house and live off investments Because that's not freedom. That's some middling low rent outcome. Freedom means I don't have to wait in line if I don't want to. That if a hurricane comes through and destroys my house, I can just move to another one without trouble. That if I get Liver cancer, I can buy a house in Tennessee and skip the donor wait list in California (Like Steve Jobs did). It means the local cops won't bully me and my family because I paid for all of their fancy new equipment. Etc... Freedom is not sitting idle in some garage fiddling with some bullshit. It's about being able to act with as wide as options as possible.
      - gorkonsine 9y ago
        So what the hell are you arguing for anyway? Becoming a multi-millionaire? That's simply not possible for most people. What the hell is your point?
        AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        The example I gave was for someone who wants financial freedom. Well some piddly dividends from a whole market index fund isn't financial freedom, its the appearance of it. So if you want financial freedom that won't get you there. The point is that we shouldn't be advocating for middling outcomes and some fake version of freedom defined by leisure. It's not about being a millionaire its about leading an impactful option filled life. You can do that without money. There is a whole trend of bucking the idea of having a huge vision and working to make that happen. Rejecting the idea that our work shouldn't be the most important thing in our lives. Your work, is how you engage with the world. Your job sucks, ok then do something else, move, shed the restrictions keeping you from doing it. People lock themselves into these cycles aka rat races where they are working bullshit jobs for inefficient exploitative markets. Stop, and go and make an impact. Stop with the idea that working for 20 years and then taking the rest of your life off is the best use of your talent. Oh but they say I have a family to feed, and I have health problems etc... Guess what, they'll figure it out. Kids are tough and resilient. Move somewhere with better health care, restructure your life to minimize the impacts. There are ways to do it.
RealityNow 9y ago
You're being pedantic. When I said retirement, I was obviously referring to financial independence. Financial independence is what enables a person to spend their time doing whatever it is they want, ie. freedom.