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> “You can go to college and learn the theology of the Roman Empire,” says Kleis, who just completed a three-day training program at 84 Lumber’s rural Pennsylv

> “You can go to college and learn the theology of the Roman Empire,” says Kleis, who just completed a three-day training program at 84 Lumber’s rural Pennsylvania headquarters. “You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? I know how to frame a house.” This is so incredibly vapid and such a poor argument to make in favor of what is otherwise a valid case being made by the author. I can't believe Bloomberg used that quote.

deleted 9y ago
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d-sc 9y ago
As someone who has been surrounded by blue collar workers growing up. (Live on Farm and parents ran construction company). I would tend to agree with the quote. I am sophomore in college and it would appear that friends in high school who skipped out on college and are working now are economically and socially farther ahead in life than most of my classmates in college.
- zzalpha 9y ago
  I am sophomore in college and it would appear that friends in high school who skipped out on college and are working now are economically and socially farther ahead in life than most of my classmates in college. You're a sophomore. That makes you, what... 21? It's a bit early to be coming to conclusions about relative success. At that age, they could be managing a gas station and would appear to be "economically further ahead." The tortoise and the hare spring to mind. Wait ten years and then see how you're all doing.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  Give it a few years. There are exceptions, but for the most part those friends who never made it to college are going to be in dead-end or precarious jobs for much of their working lives. Some of your college buddies will too, but not nearly as many.
StevePerkins 9y ago
Ehh, I don't know. It is sharply worded, but "vapid and poor"? I have a graduate degree. The CS portions of that have indeed been useful in my career as a programmer. However, the rest of my liberal arts education have been helpful in... well... conversing with other liberal arts grads. I sound fairly well-spoken, I suppose, when writing up documentation that no one usually reads. I can reasonably frame a critical argument, except that I live in a world now where most discussion takes place in social echo chambers anyway. I am pleased with my life outcome, and do not envy the person being quoted, primarily because I lucked into a hot market at the ideal time. But if I were starting out today, I'm not so sure of how smug I would be in comparing my career prospects, core values, and likelihood of happiness and self-actualization to this person's. Frankly, I think that "blue collar" work would have to pay twice as much as "white collar" work before society would start to re-align itself accordingly. Because quite frankly, we're going on 3 or 4 generations now of the mindset that white collar work is something to aspire to, while blue collar work is a sign of failure and low social status. Our entrenched cultural bias lags behind the cold economic reality for most young people coming up today.
- jaclaz 9y ago
  I refuse to believe that a regional manager of any company can be classified as "blue collar". And of course there is nothing bad in choosing to study and get a degree (or however some higher education) or in choosing to start working and make a different career, but being proud of one's own ignorance? Knowing how to frame a house does not automatically exclude some knowledge about Roman Theology.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  Or we could find out that sitting all day is really bad for your health...
ythn 9y ago
> You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? Who cares about learning history? It's not like those who don't understand it are doomed to repeat it or anything. I'll leave that to the politicians - I have houses to frame. All knowledge should be directly translatable to $$$ or it's a waste of time. /s
rdiddly 9y ago
Your argument appears to be nothing more than namecalling[1], so look who's talking. Anyway it's a quote from a young man going into the building trades, no surprises here. If a Roman theology professor said it, I might be surprised. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_pyramid#Graham.27s_hierarchy_of_disagreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_pyramid#Graham.27s_...
sgt101 9y ago
Yes, a knowledge of history is hugely valuable in understanding what's happening in the world.
- thephyber 9y ago
  I don't think that's what the parent was trying to convey. The quote is a strawman fallacy and it's comparing apples-to-oranges. It's pretty clear that the kid was trying to compare a 4-year liberal arts degree to a 3-day course (or a series of courses) in management that only applies to lumber/construction. It's probably not a bad deal to get paid $40k a year to learn to be a manager in construction, but your job prospects are far narrower than with a 4-year liberal arts degree and I can't imagine 84 Lumber got to be a $2billion without attacking conditions to their training programs (eg. you are liable to pay back some formula of your training expenses if you don't complete training and work for the company for some set amount of time).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

d-sc 9y ago

As someone who has been surrounded by blue collar workers growing up. (Live on Farm and parents ran construction company). I would tend to agree with the quote. I am sophomore in college and it would appear that friends in high school who skipped out on college and are working now are economically and socially farther ahead in life than most of my classmates in college.

zzalpha 9y ago
I am sophomore in college and it would appear that friends in high school who skipped out on college and are working now are economically and socially farther ahead in life than most of my classmates in college. You're a sophomore. That makes you, what... 21? It's a bit early to be coming to conclusions about relative success. At that age, they could be managing a gas station and would appear to be "economically further ahead." The tortoise and the hare spring to mind. Wait ten years and then see how you're all doing.
crispyambulance 9y ago
Give it a few years. There are exceptions, but for the most part those friends who never made it to college are going to be in dead-end or precarious jobs for much of their working lives. Some of your college buddies will too, but not nearly as many.

StevePerkins 9y ago

Ehh, I don't know. It is sharply worded, but "vapid and poor"? I have a graduate degree. The CS portions of that have indeed been useful in my career as a programmer. However, the rest of my liberal arts education have been helpful in... well... conversing with other liberal arts grads. I sound fairly well-spoken, I suppose, when writing up documentation that no one usually reads. I can reasonably frame a critical argument, except that I live in a world now where most discussion takes place in social echo chambers anyway. I am pleased with my life outcome, and do not envy the person being quoted, primarily because I lucked into a hot market at the ideal time. But if I were starting out today, I'm not so sure of how smug I would be in comparing my career prospects, core values, and likelihood of happiness and self-actualization to this person's. Frankly, I think that "blue collar" work would have to pay twice as much as "white collar" work before society would start to re-align itself accordingly. Because quite frankly, we're going on 3 or 4 generations now of the mindset that white collar work is something to aspire to, while blue collar work is a sign of failure and low social status. Our entrenched cultural bias lags behind the cold economic reality for most young people coming up today.

jaclaz 9y ago
I refuse to believe that a regional manager of any company can be classified as "blue collar". And of course there is nothing bad in choosing to study and get a degree (or however some higher education) or in choosing to start working and make a different career, but being proud of one's own ignorance? Knowing how to frame a house does not automatically exclude some knowledge about Roman Theology.
sliverstorm 9y ago
Or we could find out that sitting all day is really bad for your health...

ythn 9y ago

> You learn all this ridiculous nonsense, and when you get out, what are you applying that to? Who cares about learning history? It's not like those who don't understand it are doomed to repeat it or anything. I'll leave that to the politicians - I have houses to frame. All knowledge should be directly translatable to $$$ or it's a waste of time. /s

rdiddly 9y ago

Your argument appears to be nothing more than namecalling[1], so look who's talking. Anyway it's a quote from a young man going into the building trades, no surprises here. If a Roman theology professor said it, I might be surprised. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_pyramid#Graham.27s_hierarchy_of_disagreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_pyramid#Graham.27s_...

sgt101 9y ago

Yes, a knowledge of history is hugely valuable in understanding what's happening in the world.

thephyber 9y ago
I don't think that's what the parent was trying to convey. The quote is a strawman fallacy and it's comparing apples-to-oranges. It's pretty clear that the kid was trying to compare a 4-year liberal arts degree to a 3-day course (or a series of courses) in management that only applies to lumber/construction. It's probably not a bad deal to get paid $40k a year to learn to be a manager in construction, but your job prospects are far narrower than with a 4-year liberal arts degree and I can't imagine 84 Lumber got to be a $2billion without attacking conditions to their training programs (eg. you are liable to pay back some formula of your training expenses if you don't complete training and work for the company for some set amount of time).