5 ms·

Fatigue of the subject possibly.

by araglia 9y ago

davexunit 9y ago
The subject will be brought up again and again until the issues are addressed.
- araglia 9y ago
  You mean perpetually then? This is not a problem that will ever go away in general. So people get tired of it. I could share some stories my mom told me about her workplace experiences from the 70s to the 90s. They're much more disturbing than being passed over for promotion. So perhaps things have gotten better.
  - kevincrane 9y ago
    > This is not a problem that will ever go away in general. So people get tired of it. If you're tired of reading about it, imagine how exhausting it must be for women who have to actually live with it.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - unholywars 9y ago
      I have to deal with douchebags and people I don't like on a daily basis, people who make my job hard and people who I'd like to vanish off the face of the earth. I don't write blog posts about it, because 1. nobody cares 2. this is what life is like and some people just need to toughen up a bit. Assholes exist, don't try to shield yourself from them, learn how to fight back and they'll respect you.
    - araglia 9y ago
      While sitting in his open office with another employee next to me my boss, the owner of the company, bellowed at me "If I were 30 years younger, I'd jump over this table and fuck you!" I laughed. Two months later I received my bonus; the day after that I gave notice. That comment wasn't the worst thing he had said or done to me. That also wasn't the first time I had been harassed at work. In the beginning it was a little exhausting because I felt I should stick it out - perhaps as some sort psychological rite of passage. However, I eventually learned the easy way to deal with it. Don't fight. Don't argue. Just leave. There are men and women who deal with harassment everyday gracefully. The tech industry is so expansive and filled with opportunity that the moment I feel an employer doesn't have my back, I know I can split and not care. I don't know why more people don't see it the same way.
      - kevincrane 9y ago
        > Don't fight. Don't argue. Just leave. There are men and women who deal with harassment everyday gracefully. That's a horrifically regressive view on this. Why should the person being harassed have to leave? Why can't the person doing the harassing be forced out? And saying that leaving quietly is "handling it gracefully" puts the entire burden on the victim, as if not just graciously accepting someone's sexual advances is causing a nuisance to the rest of the company. If you expect all women who are the victims of sexual harassment to leave their jobs without making a fuss, you can't be surprised when people write long thinkpieces on the software industry is lacking in female representation.
        araglia 9y ago
        No, it's a self-efficacious view. I never see myself as a victim. There is no burden. And that's where I can't see eye-to-eye with you on your thoughts. I've gotten tired of the thinkpieces and the people who write them. They're not doing anything but writing sanctimonious bullshit from their ivory tower. I take action. Whether you think leaving a toxic workplace quietly is not an acceptable response, then that's your opinion.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        Perhaps Rosa Parks should have just gone to the back of the bus instead of making a sanctimonious bullshit fuss. That sanctimonious bullshit from the ivory tower is the reason that things are as good as they are today relative to yesterday, as bad as things still are today.
  - gdulli 9y ago
    > So perhaps things have gotten better. Yes, because of the actions and attitudes of people who give the subject its due attention, not the people who write it off as fatiguing.
    - araglia 9y ago
      No, it's the fatigue and lack of attention that improves it. That is to say, the course of action that the actual affected individual takes. They stop taking the shit and leave. If this happens enough, then shitty employers go out of business.
      - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
        You think the employers give a shit? They certainly don't, unless there's a lawsuit against them. Just leaving doesn't make a statement to them. They don't care. They'll find someone else to fill that job, and if it's another women, they'll get treated just the same. They won't learn anything as long as there are people able to fill the seat, which there always will be. You're naive if you think they'll go out of business just because you left. You're replaceable. Nearly everyone at every company is replaceable.
  - convolvatron 9y ago
    These kinds of problems aren't really being solved by having a mandatory seminar. There are broad cultural issues at play, and certainly quite a bit of corporate ass covering. However, I don't think its reasonable for anyone in an employment situation to have to suffer because of the psychological problems of their peers and especially their superiors. Sexual harassment is just one egregious example. If you are really worried about litigation, stop putting narcissistic sociopaths in your management structure. I know that sounds hard. At least you can try?
- abiox 9y ago
  well, there are other possibilities; such as the philosophical-political underpinnings establishing the existence of 'the issues' (whatever that is) being countered.

Fatigue of the subject possibly.

davexunit 9y ago

The subject will be brought up again and again until the issues are addressed.

araglia 9y ago
You mean perpetually then? This is not a problem that will ever go away in general. So people get tired of it. I could share some stories my mom told me about her workplace experiences from the 70s to the 90s. They're much more disturbing than being passed over for promotion. So perhaps things have gotten better.
- kevincrane 9y ago
  > This is not a problem that will ever go away in general. So people get tired of it. If you're tired of reading about it, imagine how exhausting it must be for women who have to actually live with it.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - unholywars 9y ago
    I have to deal with douchebags and people I don't like on a daily basis, people who make my job hard and people who I'd like to vanish off the face of the earth. I don't write blog posts about it, because 1. nobody cares 2. this is what life is like and some people just need to toughen up a bit. Assholes exist, don't try to shield yourself from them, learn how to fight back and they'll respect you.
  - araglia 9y ago
    While sitting in his open office with another employee next to me my boss, the owner of the company, bellowed at me "If I were 30 years younger, I'd jump over this table and fuck you!" I laughed. Two months later I received my bonus; the day after that I gave notice. That comment wasn't the worst thing he had said or done to me. That also wasn't the first time I had been harassed at work. In the beginning it was a little exhausting because I felt I should stick it out - perhaps as some sort psychological rite of passage. However, I eventually learned the easy way to deal with it. Don't fight. Don't argue. Just leave. There are men and women who deal with harassment everyday gracefully. The tech industry is so expansive and filled with opportunity that the moment I feel an employer doesn't have my back, I know I can split and not care. I don't know why more people don't see it the same way.
    - kevincrane 9y ago
      > Don't fight. Don't argue. Just leave. There are men and women who deal with harassment everyday gracefully. That's a horrifically regressive view on this. Why should the person being harassed have to leave? Why can't the person doing the harassing be forced out? And saying that leaving quietly is "handling it gracefully" puts the entire burden on the victim, as if not just graciously accepting someone's sexual advances is causing a nuisance to the rest of the company. If you expect all women who are the victims of sexual harassment to leave their jobs without making a fuss, you can't be surprised when people write long thinkpieces on the software industry is lacking in female representation.
      - araglia 9y ago
        No, it's a self-efficacious view. I never see myself as a victim. There is no burden. And that's where I can't see eye-to-eye with you on your thoughts. I've gotten tired of the thinkpieces and the people who write them. They're not doing anything but writing sanctimonious bullshit from their ivory tower. I take action. Whether you think leaving a toxic workplace quietly is not an acceptable response, then that's your opinion.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        Perhaps Rosa Parks should have just gone to the back of the bus instead of making a sanctimonious bullshit fuss. That sanctimonious bullshit from the ivory tower is the reason that things are as good as they are today relative to yesterday, as bad as things still are today.
- gdulli 9y ago
  > So perhaps things have gotten better. Yes, because of the actions and attitudes of people who give the subject its due attention, not the people who write it off as fatiguing.
  - araglia 9y ago
    No, it's the fatigue and lack of attention that improves it. That is to say, the course of action that the actual affected individual takes. They stop taking the shit and leave. If this happens enough, then shitty employers go out of business.
    - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
      You think the employers give a shit? They certainly don't, unless there's a lawsuit against them. Just leaving doesn't make a statement to them. They don't care. They'll find someone else to fill that job, and if it's another women, they'll get treated just the same. They won't learn anything as long as there are people able to fill the seat, which there always will be. You're naive if you think they'll go out of business just because you left. You're replaceable. Nearly everyone at every company is replaceable.
- convolvatron 9y ago
  These kinds of problems aren't really being solved by having a mandatory seminar. There are broad cultural issues at play, and certainly quite a bit of corporate ass covering. However, I don't think its reasonable for anyone in an employment situation to have to suffer because of the psychological problems of their peers and especially their superiors. Sexual harassment is just one egregious example. If you are really worried about litigation, stop putting narcissistic sociopaths in your management structure. I know that sounds hard. At least you can try?
abiox 9y ago
well, there are other possibilities; such as the philosophical-political underpinnings establishing the existence of 'the issues' (whatever that is) being countered.