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Before we can consider seeding terrestrial stations on Mars, we should consider seeding a communications net around Mars. Once we have a half dozen satellites c

Before we can consider seeding terrestrial stations on Mars, we should consider seeding a communications net around Mars. Once we have a half dozen satellites circling Mars, we can start stable comms from the surface to orbit to Earth. It may take 10-20 minutes (for a signal to be received), but the communication is the essential piece here. I'd also consider putting satellites in Earth and Mars lagrange L3, L4, and L5. It's the start of a solar system based internet, even if it is rudimentary. Think of this as a store-and-forward network where signals may be too weak for Earth to pick up, but can hit Jupiter L5 to Mars planet, to Earth L3. And greetings, all, BTW.

TomK32 9y ago
Bulding the Network is the best part about KSP, right?
SEJeff 9y ago
Pretty sure this reason in specific is why SpaceX accepted the 1 billion USD investment from Google Ventures for their satellite internet constellation project in Seattle. If Musk's endgame plan is a serious Mars colony, there needs to be both location and communication over the entire planet (of mars). There also needs to be bidirectional communication with Earth. An orbiting constellation makes sense to do this. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/technology/google-makes-1-billion-investment-in-spacex.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/technology/google-makes-1...
- Retric 9y ago
  The important part of mars colonization is being able to produce 100% of all needed goods (from food to CPU's) on the surface of mars, not covering the planet with people. Really 2-3 redundant geosynchronous satellites on mars should be plenty for a very long time. Musk wants satellite internet as it lets Space X lower cost per launch by launching a lot of satellites.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    > on the surface of mars Why? Wouldn't it be easier to bootstrap by mining asteroids, and manufacturing in micro gravity, then dropping nearly finished goods onto the planet? That'd also allow you to use the same bootstrapping infrastructure for several surface sites.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Mining asteroids has a ton of issues even beyond the obvious cost and R&D problems. They are generally far from the sun so solar power is significantly less useful. You need to move a lot of bulk material which means heavy Delta V problems. Micro gravity means you can't have humans in the area for long without giant structures. Finally, economically resources are just not that scarce. The delta V issues are more reasonable when you want stuff to end up in space. But, that's not an issue for a Mars colony. As to mining Mars's moon's they don't really have a lot of useful material that is not on Mars in the first place. PS: Space X's slightly lower the cost to orbit actually makes Asteroid mining even less viable.
      - gorkonsine 9y ago
        >They are generally far from the sun so solar power is significantly less useful. No, they aren't. There's tons of asteroids in Earth-crossing orbits. And Mars-crossing orbits too. It'll be a long time before we use those up. >You need to move a lot of bulk material which means heavy Delta V problems. No, you don't. You process the ores near the asteroids; you don't have to ship it all to the point-of-use. >Micro gravity means you can't have humans in the area for long without giant structures. So what? You don't need a lot of humans there; this stuff needs to be automated (or at least remote-controlled). And artificial gravity doesn't need a giant structure; you can do it with a small structure on a tether. >Finally, economically resources are just not that scarce. That depends on what resources, and where you want them. If you want a lot of platinum, it's very scarce here on Earth, but mining one Earth-crossing asteroid could provide a huge amount of it relatively cheaply. >As to mining Mars's moon's they don't really have a lot of useful material that is not on Mars in the first place. How do you know that? Mars's moons are really just captured asteroids and likely have no geological relation to Mars at all.
Robotbeat 9y ago
> Before we can consider seeding terrestrial stations on Mars, we should consider seeding a communications net around Mars. We already do. > Once we have a half dozen satellites circling Mars... We already have half a dozen active satellites circling Mars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Mars_Odyssey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Mars_Odyssey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAVEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAVEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExoMars_Trace_Gas_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExoMars_Trace_Gas_Orbiter All of these (including the European satellites) except the Indian MOM orbiter contain a communications relay radio (for relaying from Mars surface to Earth) provided by NASA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) We actually have quite a bit of infrastructure built up around Mars already. All these spacecraft are referred to as the "Mars fleet" (which is frakking awesome...).
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) >Data rates up to 1 Mbit/s That's a bit of a problem. It only seems to be a relay for other spacecraft and small surface craft. Much more data will need to be exchanged between Earth/Mars when humans are involved (weather, video, entertainment, collected data, software, etc.) You'd probably want several brand new satellites dedicated to communications for an initial colonial undertaking.
  - Robotbeat 9y ago
    MRO does 6Mbit/s. But indeed, NASA intends much higher bandwidth for future missions using laser communications. SpaceX would likely use a variant of their constellation satellites which should be capable of multiple Gbit/s using laser communications.
  - trey-jones 9y ago
    If you think about the initial communications infrastructure around North America when Columbus set sail in the 15th century, we've got a leg up. I realize it's not the same situation, not the same expectations, a different world than 500+ years ago, but real progress doesn't happen in a cleanroom.
tajen 9y ago
> I'd also consider satellutes in Earth/Mars lagrange L3, L4 and L5 (...) solar internet. If there isn't already a patent on space strategies, it may be a good idea to create a patent agency. The first intergalactic agency.

TomK32 9y ago

Bulding the Network is the best part about KSP, right?

SEJeff 9y ago

Pretty sure this reason in specific is why SpaceX accepted the 1 billion USD investment from Google Ventures for their satellite internet constellation project in Seattle. If Musk's endgame plan is a serious Mars colony, there needs to be both location and communication over the entire planet (of mars). There also needs to be bidirectional communication with Earth. An orbiting constellation makes sense to do this. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/technology/google-makes-1-billion-investment-in-spacex.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/technology/google-makes-1...

Retric 9y ago
The important part of mars colonization is being able to produce 100% of all needed goods (from food to CPU's) on the surface of mars, not covering the planet with people. Really 2-3 redundant geosynchronous satellites on mars should be plenty for a very long time. Musk wants satellite internet as it lets Space X lower cost per launch by launching a lot of satellites.
- monocasa 9y ago
  > on the surface of mars Why? Wouldn't it be easier to bootstrap by mining asteroids, and manufacturing in micro gravity, then dropping nearly finished goods onto the planet? That'd also allow you to use the same bootstrapping infrastructure for several surface sites.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Mining asteroids has a ton of issues even beyond the obvious cost and R&D problems. They are generally far from the sun so solar power is significantly less useful. You need to move a lot of bulk material which means heavy Delta V problems. Micro gravity means you can't have humans in the area for long without giant structures. Finally, economically resources are just not that scarce. The delta V issues are more reasonable when you want stuff to end up in space. But, that's not an issue for a Mars colony. As to mining Mars's moon's they don't really have a lot of useful material that is not on Mars in the first place. PS: Space X's slightly lower the cost to orbit actually makes Asteroid mining even less viable.
    - gorkonsine 9y ago
      >They are generally far from the sun so solar power is significantly less useful. No, they aren't. There's tons of asteroids in Earth-crossing orbits. And Mars-crossing orbits too. It'll be a long time before we use those up. >You need to move a lot of bulk material which means heavy Delta V problems. No, you don't. You process the ores near the asteroids; you don't have to ship it all to the point-of-use. >Micro gravity means you can't have humans in the area for long without giant structures. So what? You don't need a lot of humans there; this stuff needs to be automated (or at least remote-controlled). And artificial gravity doesn't need a giant structure; you can do it with a small structure on a tether. >Finally, economically resources are just not that scarce. That depends on what resources, and where you want them. If you want a lot of platinum, it's very scarce here on Earth, but mining one Earth-crossing asteroid could provide a huge amount of it relatively cheaply. >As to mining Mars's moon's they don't really have a lot of useful material that is not on Mars in the first place. How do you know that? Mars's moons are really just captured asteroids and likely have no geological relation to Mars at all.

Robotbeat 9y ago

> Before we can consider seeding terrestrial stations on Mars, we should consider seeding a communications net around Mars. We already do. > Once we have a half dozen satellites circling Mars... We already have half a dozen active satellites circling Mars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Mars_Odyssey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Mars_Odyssey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAVEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAVEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExoMars_Trace_Gas_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExoMars_Trace_Gas_Orbiter All of these (including the European satellites) except the Indian MOM orbiter contain a communications relay radio (for relaying from Mars surface to Earth) provided by NASA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) We actually have quite a bit of infrastructure built up around Mars already. All these spacecraft are referred to as the "Mars fleet" (which is frakking awesome...).

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_(radio) >Data rates up to 1 Mbit/s That's a bit of a problem. It only seems to be a relay for other spacecraft and small surface craft. Much more data will need to be exchanged between Earth/Mars when humans are involved (weather, video, entertainment, collected data, software, etc.) You'd probably want several brand new satellites dedicated to communications for an initial colonial undertaking.
- Robotbeat 9y ago
  MRO does 6Mbit/s. But indeed, NASA intends much higher bandwidth for future missions using laser communications. SpaceX would likely use a variant of their constellation satellites which should be capable of multiple Gbit/s using laser communications.
- trey-jones 9y ago
  If you think about the initial communications infrastructure around North America when Columbus set sail in the 15th century, we've got a leg up. I realize it's not the same situation, not the same expectations, a different world than 500+ years ago, but real progress doesn't happen in a cleanroom.

tajen 9y ago

> I'd also consider satellutes in Earth/Mars lagrange L3, L4 and L5 (...) solar internet. If there isn't already a patent on space strategies, it may be a good idea to create a patent agency. The first intergalactic agency.