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As a straight white male, this type of thing has never affected me directly. But as a programmer who's now in his 50s, I'm starting to get a very tiny taste of

As a straight white male, this type of thing has never affected me directly. But as a programmer who's now in his 50s, I'm starting to get a very tiny taste of the same emotions. There was an article on HN just a few days ago about "why you should hire older programmers" which I felt to be deeply, deeply offensive in a way I found hard to articulate. Why are you putting labels on me? Why are you pretending there's something special about this aspect of me that's completely irrelevant to my tech skills? It really bothered me, and I couldn't figure out how to respond to it. I couldn't imagine being inundated with this stuff on a daily basis. If there were "older programmer" meetups or if HR were reaching out to me to put me in outreach materials or if I had to read articles like this all the time, I honestly don't know well how I'd deal with it. It's easy to deal with the occasional age discrimination in the industry (which is definitely out there), but it's actual this other aspect of it that I find infuriating.

danesparza 9y ago
I love that even though it's taken you a while to see from somebody else's point of view you took the time to share this. Especially "I couldn't imagine being inundated with this stuff on a daily basis". Thanks.
kowdermeister 9y ago
We can't exists without labels. There are no lab-white programmers out there pure as a function. I missed that article, but older probably meant more experienced. You shouldn't be offended, but it's up to you. I try to avoid labels too, but I can't escape it. In a room full of firmware engineers I would be the "web guy", I'm fine with that. There are "older programmer" meetups, it's just not called that way. A friend of mine visited a smalltalk meetup in London and he sad it was a couple of guys in their 50-s. He really enjoyed it. I think it's much better to learn to live with labels (after all you can invent your own) than being constantly pissed off about them.
- DavidWoof 9y ago
  > I would be the "web guy" > smalltalk meetup in London and he sad it was a couple of guys in their 50-s These examples sound to me like the exact opposite of what was being discussed here. In both cases, these are examples of labeling based on technical skill or interest, the complete polar opposite of what's being discussed here. > than being constantly pissed off I don't see how either myself or OP said anything like this. In fact, I tried to emphasize how I had experienced only a tiny taste of this kind of thing.
  - kowdermeister 9y ago
    How is this the complete opposite? Tangent at worst :) Labels are labels, it doesn't really matter to me if it's a tech label or something I can't control. If I can't control it, then I don't care about it.
    - DavidWoof 9y ago
      Well, because the discussion is about labelling people based on non-technical personal attributes. You're discussing the exact opposite type of label. If you honestly don't see any difference between somebody being called "the web guy" on a daily basis and making assumptions about your skill based on that title, as opposed to somebody being called "the black dev" on a daily basis and having people making assumptions about skills based on that title, then I don't think anything I say here can possibly make a difference.

danesparza 9y ago

I love that even though it's taken you a while to see from somebody else's point of view you took the time to share this. Especially "I couldn't imagine being inundated with this stuff on a daily basis". Thanks.

kowdermeister 9y ago

We can't exists without labels. There are no lab-white programmers out there pure as a function. I missed that article, but older probably meant more experienced. You shouldn't be offended, but it's up to you. I try to avoid labels too, but I can't escape it. In a room full of firmware engineers I would be the "web guy", I'm fine with that. There are "older programmer" meetups, it's just not called that way. A friend of mine visited a smalltalk meetup in London and he sad it was a couple of guys in their 50-s. He really enjoyed it. I think it's much better to learn to live with labels (after all you can invent your own) than being constantly pissed off about them.

DavidWoof 9y ago
> I would be the "web guy" > smalltalk meetup in London and he sad it was a couple of guys in their 50-s These examples sound to me like the exact opposite of what was being discussed here. In both cases, these are examples of labeling based on technical skill or interest, the complete polar opposite of what's being discussed here. > than being constantly pissed off I don't see how either myself or OP said anything like this. In fact, I tried to emphasize how I had experienced only a tiny taste of this kind of thing.
- kowdermeister 9y ago
  How is this the complete opposite? Tangent at worst :) Labels are labels, it doesn't really matter to me if it's a tech label or something I can't control. If I can't control it, then I don't care about it.
  - DavidWoof 9y ago
    Well, because the discussion is about labelling people based on non-technical personal attributes. You're discussing the exact opposite type of label. If you honestly don't see any difference between somebody being called "the web guy" on a daily basis and making assumptions about your skill based on that title, as opposed to somebody being called "the black dev" on a daily basis and having people making assumptions about skills based on that title, then I don't think anything I say here can possibly make a difference.