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> Studies are showing that more diverse teams have higher collective intelligence... Yet the evidence provided for this claim regards preliminary findings of a

> Studies are showing that more diverse teams have higher collective intelligence... Yet the evidence provided for this claim regards preliminary findings of a singular study conducted six years ago. > Is it a problem that of computer science degrees earned, only 28% are earned by women? Again, the evidence provided for this claim is an article about an article about an infographic stating, "Among all students holding B.S. degrees in Computer Science...28% ARE WOMEN...though we recognize that this has decreased over the last 25 years, we are encouraged by the increases that are occurring." However, the source for these figures seems to emanate from this table: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp Which illustrates, "Degrees in computer and information sciences conferred by degree-granting institutions, by level of degree and sex of student: 1970-71 through 2010-11." And shows that between 2010 and 2011 only 17% of bachelors degrees went to women while 28% of masters degrees went to women. So that contradicts the figure reported in the graphic as it seems they used the wrong degree type. Nevertheless, I was at least able to eventually source this figure even though it holds little bearing on discrimination. > Or that the rate of women in computing has been steadily in decline since 1991? I cannot even source this statistic and no evidence is provided. Although, it would seem to be contradictory given what's listed in the above report. > Or that twice as many women quit the high tech industry as men? Again, no evidence is provided for this conclusion. However, I do feel that I've previously read an article to this effect. Although, it was quite faulty in its conclusions and I believe I left a comment to that effect. So I cannot even speak to the veracity of this claim without doing a bunch more research. > Assuming we can agree there is a problem... Given what's above, we cannot. > I’d say it’s something like this: the problem is, that the tech industry isn’t able to attract and retain enough women. Well I'd say something like this: attempting to force equality over a volunteer workforce is unnecessary and meaningless. If women want to become a larger portion of the tech industry, they are free to get educated and work their way up just like everyone else. And if they encounter actual discrimination or harassment along the way, there are laws already in effect which can be readily enforced.

djsumdog 9y ago
I really like how you broke down the sources, statistics and try to put things in perspective. I really tend to agree here. There is no mention of pay in this article, but there are plenty of other sources that dispel the myth that women get paid less than men (it's more like people of lower confidence simply do not ask for as much money -- both men and women; see The Confidence Gap). I also think part of the reason we see fewer women in Tech is they don't want shitty jobs. We have everything from Dilbert to Office Space to We The Robots, all showing how terrible life in a cube can be. Women often take jobs that pay less but are more fulfilling (teachers, nurses, non-profits). If we want more women in tech, I think we'd need to make tech more fulfilling and less miserable for everyone.
- richmarr 9y ago
  > the myth that women get paid less than men This is not true. On the experimental side, studies show candidates with female names are rated lower and recieve lower starting salaries to male candidates with identical CVs (see Moss-Racusin et al. 2012) On the statistical side, check out the data from; - the UK's ONS (http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-gender-pay-gap-has-almost-closed-for-millennial-women-but-it-comes-shooting-back-when-they-turn-30/ http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-gender-pa...), - the OECD (https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm) You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistics, and some of them may partially explain some aspects of a complex phenomenon.... but the fundamental finding that people are treated differently based on who they are is repeated over and over, both in research and in human experience. Some more studies on the subject: [1] People in gender-incongruent roles penalised more heavily for mistakes (Brescoll, Dawson, & Uhlmann, 2010). [2] Voluble women perceived as less competent and less suitable leaders, inverse true for men (Brescoll, 2011). [3] Women who succeed in male-dominated fields percieved as not likeable (Heilman et al, 2004). [4] Students question the competence of female teachers who evaluate them negatively, less so than male teachers (Sinclair & Kunda 2000).
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    A study with Resumes/CVs is a fun thought experiment, but it's not reality. You need to compare actual wages in actual jobs. > You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistic Please avoid this race to the bottom. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. No need to say I have "pet theories." The EPA once told DDT was perfectly safe to spray around humans. We are all wrong about something. "..under this metric for people with a college degree, there is virtually no pay gap at all." https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-white-houses-use-of-data-on-the-gender-wage-gap/2012/06/04/gJQAYH6nEV_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-w... "When controlled for education and career choices, women make 93% "of what men earned" http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-the-earnings-of-women-and-men-one-year-after-college-graduation.pdf http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-th... (p20, 34) The Confidence Gap is a great article which talks about how people are more likely to get high wages if they have confidence and ask for it, and how women have trouble with portraying confidence without being perceived as bitchy: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-confidence-gap/359815/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-con...

djsumdog 9y ago

I really like how you broke down the sources, statistics and try to put things in perspective. I really tend to agree here. There is no mention of pay in this article, but there are plenty of other sources that dispel the myth that women get paid less than men (it's more like people of lower confidence simply do not ask for as much money -- both men and women; see The Confidence Gap). I also think part of the reason we see fewer women in Tech is they don't want shitty jobs. We have everything from Dilbert to Office Space to We The Robots, all showing how terrible life in a cube can be. Women often take jobs that pay less but are more fulfilling (teachers, nurses, non-profits). If we want more women in tech, I think we'd need to make tech more fulfilling and less miserable for everyone.

richmarr 9y ago
> the myth that women get paid less than men This is not true. On the experimental side, studies show candidates with female names are rated lower and recieve lower starting salaries to male candidates with identical CVs (see Moss-Racusin et al. 2012) On the statistical side, check out the data from; - the UK's ONS (http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-gender-pay-gap-has-almost-closed-for-millennial-women-but-it-comes-shooting-back-when-they-turn-30/ http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-gender-pa...), - the OECD (https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm) You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistics, and some of them may partially explain some aspects of a complex phenomenon.... but the fundamental finding that people are treated differently based on who they are is repeated over and over, both in research and in human experience. Some more studies on the subject: [1] People in gender-incongruent roles penalised more heavily for mistakes (Brescoll, Dawson, & Uhlmann, 2010). [2] Voluble women perceived as less competent and less suitable leaders, inverse true for men (Brescoll, 2011). [3] Women who succeed in male-dominated fields percieved as not likeable (Heilman et al, 2004). [4] Students question the competence of female teachers who evaluate them negatively, less so than male teachers (Sinclair & Kunda 2000).
- djsumdog 9y ago
  A study with Resumes/CVs is a fun thought experiment, but it's not reality. You need to compare actual wages in actual jobs. > You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistic Please avoid this race to the bottom. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. No need to say I have "pet theories." The EPA once told DDT was perfectly safe to spray around humans. We are all wrong about something. "..under this metric for people with a college degree, there is virtually no pay gap at all." https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-white-houses-use-of-data-on-the-gender-wage-gap/2012/06/04/gJQAYH6nEV_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-w... "When controlled for education and career choices, women make 93% "of what men earned" http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-the-earnings-of-women-and-men-one-year-after-college-graduation.pdf http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-th... (p20, 34) The Confidence Gap is a great article which talks about how people are more likely to get high wages if they have confidence and ask for it, and how women have trouble with portraying confidence without being perceived as bitchy: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-confidence-gap/359815/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-con...