4 ms·
This kind of nationalistic-militaristic crossover with sports is not a thing anywhere in Europe, as far as I know. It's super cringey. Same category as having k
by morsch 9y ago
This kind of nationalistic-militaristic crossover with sports is not a thing anywhere in Europe, as far as I know. It's super cringey. Same category as having kids in school recite the pledge of allegiance every day. Just really weird.
- gumby 9y agoI know: when I was a kid I was taught that the countries that needed these ritualistic pledges of patriotism and flag worship were the totalitarian ones (USSR, GDR, Turkey, Imperial Japan, etc). It was a shock to see my kid have to learn a flag prayer in the USA. And sport is a private sector activity -- why should the government be involved?
- Animats 9y ago"Flag Prayer"? The Pledge of Allegiance? Only US citizens should recite the pledge of allegiance. Non US citizens owe their loyalty to another country. But schools don't do that, because it would mean identifying US citizens.
- CodeMage 9y agoI would respectfully disagree that US citizens "should" recite the pledge of allegiance every day at school. I understand that you probably meant something along the lines of "it makes no sense for non-US citizens to recite the pledge of allegiance at all", but I'd still like to address the point you happened to write. I'm firmly convinced that no child, citizen or not, should engage in a daily ritual like that, especially not at school. The worst aspect of contemporary education -- not only in the US, but in many other countries -- is teaching through indoctrination. Instead of encouraging our kids to develop their critical thinking, our educational systems focus on making them learn by repetition and trust the authority.
- logfromblammo 9y agoIf you were not already convinced, just one photograph of American schoolchildren doing the "Bellamy salute" to the US flag would probably do so.
- bitJericho 9y agoNobody should make the pledge because it's a downright lie. Liberty and justice do not exist in the US.
- gumby 9y agoYes, that's what I mean. Pledging allegiance to a flag is dangerous (remember the roman legionaries swore allegiance to their standard, not to the republic, and took the sides of their generals in civil wars). Perhaps to you, steeped in it, it doesn't look like a prayer, but to an outsider it appears little different from a religious invocation. These differences my seem subtle or even trivial, but history has shown that it is dangerous. Note that in the US soldiers and other holders of the public trust swear to uphold the country's constitution, not its flag. It all comes down to the order of primacy: the country, constitution, civil institutions, chain of command etc are all in service to the support of the citizenry not the other way around.
- bitJericho 9y agoHave you read the pledge? The flag stands for "the republic". It is a pledge to the United States itself...
- quesera 9y agoI think you're confused. The first objective clause is pretty direct.
- bitJericho 9y ago"...the flag, and to the republic for which it stands
- quesera 9y agoRight. The flag and the Republic. Individually and collectively perhaps, but not only the Republic.
- bitJericho 9y agoI guess it depends on the definition of "Stands". If it literally means the flag standing up, I guess you're right.
- anth1988 9y agoNo one should recite the pledge of allegiance. It's a bizarre form of nationalistic indoctrination.
- majormajor 9y agoThe day after a holiday celebrating independence from another nation is a hilarious one on which to be defending a trumped-up loyalty oath.