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Ask HN: Is Grammerly a Keylogger as a Service?

canadianwriter 9y ago
They've been advertising to me hardcore and it is completely free. It makes me wonder what data they are selling. I have no issue with them advertising to me based on what I've typed but if they put me in audiences based on it and sell those I get uncomfortable.
- fusiongyro 9y ago
  It's not completely free. Their free version is a limited-feature advertisement for the premium version, which is between $12 and $30 a month depending on billing frequency. https://www.grammarly.com/premium https://www.grammarly.com/premium
  - johnnyfaehell 9y ago
    I use the free version. I would use the premium version if it was like 5-10 a month. But if I want to pay monthly it's 30 and that's a bit too expensive for my liking.
    - fusiongyro 9y ago
      They have that, if you pay annually.
- oplav 9y ago
  Their privacy policy says they aren't in the business of selling user information. They also say they do not share information with third parties for the purpose of enabling them to deliver their advertisements to you. https://www.grammarly.com/privacy-policy https://www.grammarly.com/privacy-policy
fredley 9y ago
What's one more keylogger? Your OS is already logging your keystrokes, your browser is already logging your keystrokes, who even knows what else is already logging your keystrokes. Obviously I speak here for the majority of computer users, I imagine many (most?) in the HN readership have taken steps to reduce the amount of keylogging they are exposed to as much as possible already.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  Whose browser and OS is logging keystrokes? OSX/Windows users with IE/Edge/Safari? Are you insinuating that Google has a patch which integrates keylogging in their Chrome builds of Chromium? I typically use Chromium on OpenBSD, am I being keylogged. I'm pretty sure we all have a choice, and many of us choose convenience over privacy.
  - jowsie 9y ago
    You should take a look at the kind of js that gets injected into most mainstream websites nowadays.
    - zemo 9y ago
      attaching an event handler to a keyboard action is not the same thing as keylogging...
      - zer0tonin 9y ago
        If it's on all keyboard actions, then it's the same thing.
        27182818284 9y ago
        Often it is this too, because of sloppy coding, not even malicious intent. I've seen people implement JavaScript easter eggs that play a funny joke, but in doing so the developers had created a keylogger by accident that was logging everything you did on the site. Again, wasn't malicious at all they didn't think about it at all.
        diggan 9y ago
        Unless you're not actually logging the actions but just listening for certain combinations like "ctrl+x" or even "x"
    - Jonnax 9y ago
      You're going to have to explain a bit more than that. Tabs are isolated fork each other and the web browser does give a web page the kind of access to be key logging. If you're talking about things that you type whilst the page is in active focus then it's kinda their website you're visiting.
itsthecourier 9y ago
I'm trying to pay them to get some keylogging data, but I don't see such link :( just freemium stuff https://www.grammarly.com/premium https://www.grammarly.com/premium well, seems legit. dangerous, but legit to me.
reustle 9y ago
For those interested, here's the site: https://www.grammarly.com/ https://www.grammarly.com/
wx2018 9y ago
I can totally see this being the case. They do have paid versions, I think only the browser extension is "free"?
tokyoSurfer 9y ago
While we are focusing on Facebook, Google etc. for breaking our privacy to extract data and pass it to third parties, we are willing to use Grammarly, CloudFlare and CrashPlan, pay for it and use it while hoping they will not work with security services. We need much more transparency it seems.
- EGreg 9y ago
  There is this idea floating around that the corollary to "if you aren't paying, you're the product" to "if you are paying, you're not." I wonder why so many people tacitly assume that paying for a service will make them forego mining your data and monetizing it. Very few people read the terms of service in its entirety regardless of whether they pay or not. What we SHOULD do is standardize privacy policy clauses already.
kawsper 9y ago
I don't know, but I did think the same thing, and that is why I uninstalled it.
EGreg 9y ago
I have always wondered why spelling and grammar checkers - which could easily fit on your computer back in the 90s - needed a cloud-based provider. One could easily build chrome extensions that DIDN'T phone home. Today deep learning data can be downloaded to each computer. They are doing it with small IOT!!
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  Because their algorithms are their valuable intellectual property and hiding them behind server is the only real way to protect. Of course it has nothing to do with performance. May be they use some statistics over uploaded texts to improve algorithms.
pvg 9y ago
If you think that, you can write about it and make your case instead of abusing 'Ask HN'. You're not asking anything, just insinuating.
buildmystartup 9y ago
They send a weekly emails with chunks of text they corrected so that means my data is being transferred somewhere. I would stay away from this service.

They've been advertising to me hardcore and it is completely free. It makes me wonder what data they are selling. I have no issue with them advertising to me based on what I've typed but if they put me in audiences based on it and sell those I get uncomfortable.

fusiongyro 9y ago
It's not completely free. Their free version is a limited-feature advertisement for the premium version, which is between $12 and $30 a month depending on billing frequency. https://www.grammarly.com/premium https://www.grammarly.com/premium
- johnnyfaehell 9y ago
  I use the free version. I would use the premium version if it was like 5-10 a month. But if I want to pay monthly it's 30 and that's a bit too expensive for my liking.
  - fusiongyro 9y ago
    They have that, if you pay annually.
oplav 9y ago
Their privacy policy says they aren't in the business of selling user information. They also say they do not share information with third parties for the purpose of enabling them to deliver their advertisements to you. https://www.grammarly.com/privacy-policy https://www.grammarly.com/privacy-policy

fredley 9y ago

What's one more keylogger? Your OS is already logging your keystrokes, your browser is already logging your keystrokes, who even knows what else is already logging your keystrokes. Obviously I speak here for the majority of computer users, I imagine many (most?) in the HN readership have taken steps to reduce the amount of keylogging they are exposed to as much as possible already.

microcolonel 9y ago
Whose browser and OS is logging keystrokes? OSX/Windows users with IE/Edge/Safari? Are you insinuating that Google has a patch which integrates keylogging in their Chrome builds of Chromium? I typically use Chromium on OpenBSD, am I being keylogged. I'm pretty sure we all have a choice, and many of us choose convenience over privacy.
- jowsie 9y ago
  You should take a look at the kind of js that gets injected into most mainstream websites nowadays.
  - zemo 9y ago
    attaching an event handler to a keyboard action is not the same thing as keylogging...
    - zer0tonin 9y ago
      If it's on all keyboard actions, then it's the same thing.
      - 27182818284 9y ago
        Often it is this too, because of sloppy coding, not even malicious intent. I've seen people implement JavaScript easter eggs that play a funny joke, but in doing so the developers had created a keylogger by accident that was logging everything you did on the site. Again, wasn't malicious at all they didn't think about it at all.
      - diggan 9y ago
        Unless you're not actually logging the actions but just listening for certain combinations like "ctrl+x" or even "x"
  - Jonnax 9y ago
    You're going to have to explain a bit more than that. Tabs are isolated fork each other and the web browser does give a web page the kind of access to be key logging. If you're talking about things that you type whilst the page is in active focus then it's kinda their website you're visiting.

itsthecourier 9y ago

I'm trying to pay them to get some keylogging data, but I don't see such link :( just freemium stuff https://www.grammarly.com/premium https://www.grammarly.com/premium well, seems legit. dangerous, but legit to me.

reustle 9y ago

For those interested, here's the site: https://www.grammarly.com/ https://www.grammarly.com/

wx2018 9y ago

I can totally see this being the case. They do have paid versions, I think only the browser extension is "free"?

tokyoSurfer 9y ago

While we are focusing on Facebook, Google etc. for breaking our privacy to extract data and pass it to third parties, we are willing to use Grammarly, CloudFlare and CrashPlan, pay for it and use it while hoping they will not work with security services. We need much more transparency it seems.

EGreg 9y ago
There is this idea floating around that the corollary to "if you aren't paying, you're the product" to "if you are paying, you're not." I wonder why so many people tacitly assume that paying for a service will make them forego mining your data and monetizing it. Very few people read the terms of service in its entirety regardless of whether they pay or not. What we SHOULD do is standardize privacy policy clauses already.

kawsper 9y ago

I don't know, but I did think the same thing, and that is why I uninstalled it.

EGreg 9y ago

I have always wondered why spelling and grammar checkers - which could easily fit on your computer back in the 90s - needed a cloud-based provider. One could easily build chrome extensions that DIDN'T phone home. Today deep learning data can be downloaded to each computer. They are doing it with small IOT!!

vbezhenar 9y ago
Because their algorithms are their valuable intellectual property and hiding them behind server is the only real way to protect. Of course it has nothing to do with performance. May be they use some statistics over uploaded texts to improve algorithms.

pvg 9y ago

If you think that, you can write about it and make your case instead of abusing 'Ask HN'. You're not asking anything, just insinuating.

buildmystartup 9y ago

They send a weekly emails with chunks of text they corrected so that means my data is being transferred somewhere. I would stay away from this service.