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In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a con

by netcan 9y ago

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’t see how this is en route to policies that affect this.

etix 9y ago
Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.
- jrimbault 9y ago
  The EU already made mandatory 24 months warranty for all products sold in Europe. I think this has been beneficial not only to European citizens but also to the US where there isn't a minimum warranty by default. Businesses who sell products on both sides of the Atlantic seem to have mirrored the imposed warranty of the EU in the US. I am in favor of extending the minimum warranty. PS: isn't there also some regulation that a business should provide pieces for repair for a period of 10 years? I seem to recall something like that.
  - ovi256 9y ago
    Don't forget that the 24 month warranty is one of the stated reasons for justifying the sale price difference for the same product between the US and the EU. If it's increased, manufacturers will just increase their EU prices so that their costs will be covered.
    - jrimbault 9y ago
      The price difference seems mostly due to advertised prices. In the US they advertise the price excluding tax, in the EU we advertise the price including tax. When counting taxes, there isn't a big difference.
  - ferongr 9y ago
    The EU directive might say that but countries codify that into law differently. For example, here in Greece, there is actually no law stating warranties should be two years. It only says that the warranty should be "reasonable depending on the expected lifetime of the product".
- runeks 9y ago
  I don't want to have to pay more for durable products. Please let me choose whether I want to buy extended warranty -- many manufacturers already offer it, but I'm not interested it in.
  - simion314 9y ago
    I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.
    - runeks 9y ago
      Why don't you just pay for the 5 year warranty if you want it, instead of wanting to make it mandatory that everyone pay?
      - ksk 9y ago
        The warranty doesn't make the product durable. Its just allows you to re-buy the same non-durable product using resources from a shared pool. This is about addressing the fundamental problem.
      - simion314 9y ago
        Would you buy a car if the seller gives 1 month warranty? My opinion is that expensive products should have longer warranty by default. For cheaper products current 2 years is fine.
  - simion314 9y ago
    I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.
illys 9y ago
You probably do not live in Europe (or maybe you just like trolling?). First I am a voter and I do take the EU parliament seriously. I also consider what the groups and candidates voted in the past before giving them my vote - especially on topics like world trade giant agreements (TTIP, TATFA, CETA... - yes they also vote on that and it is very meaningful for our future). You may also read some documentation on the powers and functions of the EU Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and_functions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and... You may also just read the news: -> UK just voted to get out of EU to escape EU funding and regulations - so probably those regulations do exist at a significant extend. -> A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation. So probably - yes - they can set rules on repairability and durability.
- taway_1212 9y ago
  > A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation. Wasn't that the European Commission (and not Parliament) though? They seem to be significantly more powerful.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    EU law needs to be proposed by the Commission (though the Maastricht Treaty gives Parliament powers to request that the Commission should put forward proposals on their behalf), and then normally approved and/or amended by both Parliament and the Council, with drawn out conciliation procedures if one or the other changes the proposals too much. The complexity stems from the legal status where the EU is in some respects a confederation of sovereign states, where the governments of the member states need to represent their respective nations, and in some respects a union of people. The gradual shift of power towards the Parliament represents attempts to shift it towards the latter, while the Commission and Council represents the treat realities where delegating more power to Parliament would require constitutional changes in a number of member states to cede the sovereignty (currently this is worked around by having the treaties bind the respective governments to take make the required decision - it's exploiting the wide latitude most governments have in exercising treating rights and obligations.
simion314 9y ago
Maybe the fact that the people in the EU parliament are not in the focus of the electoral people is a good thing, they will not put a big effort into the political "game", back at home the guys don't usually vote on topics on what they personal believe is best but have to vote on how the party decide is best for themselves to get a good score at the next elections.

by netcan 9y ago

etix 9y ago

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

jrimbault 9y ago
The EU already made mandatory 24 months warranty for all products sold in Europe. I think this has been beneficial not only to European citizens but also to the US where there isn't a minimum warranty by default. Businesses who sell products on both sides of the Atlantic seem to have mirrored the imposed warranty of the EU in the US. I am in favor of extending the minimum warranty. PS: isn't there also some regulation that a business should provide pieces for repair for a period of 10 years? I seem to recall something like that.
- ovi256 9y ago
  Don't forget that the 24 month warranty is one of the stated reasons for justifying the sale price difference for the same product between the US and the EU. If it's increased, manufacturers will just increase their EU prices so that their costs will be covered.
  - jrimbault 9y ago
    The price difference seems mostly due to advertised prices. In the US they advertise the price excluding tax, in the EU we advertise the price including tax. When counting taxes, there isn't a big difference.
- ferongr 9y ago
  The EU directive might say that but countries codify that into law differently. For example, here in Greece, there is actually no law stating warranties should be two years. It only says that the warranty should be "reasonable depending on the expected lifetime of the product".
runeks 9y ago
I don't want to have to pay more for durable products. Please let me choose whether I want to buy extended warranty -- many manufacturers already offer it, but I'm not interested it in.
- simion314 9y ago
  I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.
  - runeks 9y ago
    Why don't you just pay for the 5 year warranty if you want it, instead of wanting to make it mandatory that everyone pay?
    - ksk 9y ago
      The warranty doesn't make the product durable. Its just allows you to re-buy the same non-durable product using resources from a shared pool. This is about addressing the fundamental problem.
    - simion314 9y ago
      Would you buy a car if the seller gives 1 month warranty? My opinion is that expensive products should have longer warranty by default. For cheaper products current 2 years is fine.
- simion314 9y ago
  I know that most people change their phones often but there are products that are expensive like washing machine, gas heaters that should be designed from the start to last 5 years or more. If 2 companies build washing machines and they need to increase the warranty time, the one that can do that with less price increase would sell more, the one that planned them to break down faster would lose and have to make a new dessign.

illys 9y ago

You probably do not live in Europe (or maybe you just like trolling?). First I am a voter and I do take the EU parliament seriously. I also consider what the groups and candidates voted in the past before giving them my vote - especially on topics like world trade giant agreements (TTIP, TATFA, CETA... - yes they also vote on that and it is very meaningful for our future). You may also read some documentation on the powers and functions of the EU Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and_functions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and... You may also just read the news: -> UK just voted to get out of EU to escape EU funding and regulations - so probably those regulations do exist at a significant extend. -> A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation. So probably - yes - they can set rules on repairability and durability.

taway_1212 9y ago
> A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation. Wasn't that the European Commission (and not Parliament) though? They seem to be significantly more powerful.
- vidarh 9y ago
  EU law needs to be proposed by the Commission (though the Maastricht Treaty gives Parliament powers to request that the Commission should put forward proposals on their behalf), and then normally approved and/or amended by both Parliament and the Council, with drawn out conciliation procedures if one or the other changes the proposals too much. The complexity stems from the legal status where the EU is in some respects a confederation of sovereign states, where the governments of the member states need to represent their respective nations, and in some respects a union of people. The gradual shift of power towards the Parliament represents attempts to shift it towards the latter, while the Commission and Council represents the treat realities where delegating more power to Parliament would require constitutional changes in a number of member states to cede the sovereignty (currently this is worked around by having the treaties bind the respective governments to take make the required decision - it's exploiting the wide latitude most governments have in exercising treating rights and obligations.

simion314 9y ago

Maybe the fact that the people in the EU parliament are not in the focus of the electoral people is a good thing, they will not put a big effort into the political "game", back at home the guys don't usually vote on topics on what they personal believe is best but have to vote on how the party decide is best for themselves to get a good score at the next elections.