6 ms·

I'd much rather see an end to "non compete" agreements. I should have a right to get another job, and my previous employer should have no more rights extended o

I'd much rather see an end to "non compete" agreements. I should have a right to get another job, and my previous employer should have no more rights extended over me after our employment agreement is finished.

GuiA 9y ago
California and federal laws say that you do, and that they don't.
- raleighm 9y ago
  Which federal laws do you mean? Contract law is a state thing.
jaredklewis 9y ago
You have what you want now. They are explicitly illegal in California, and difficult to enforce in other states.
- masklinn 9y ago
  > They are explicitly illegal in California Sadly not, they are only void, you can sue if the business tries to enforce it (Edwards v. Arthur Andersen LLP) but I'm pretty sure that's it.
masklinn 9y ago
In Cali, non-compete are not worth the paper they're printed on, all non-compete agreements (in or out of state) are void unless they apply to one of the statutory exemption of the BPC[0]: * selling the goodwill of a business (as part of or independently from the business itself) (16601) * dissolution of or disassociation from a partnership (16602) * dissolution of an LLC (16602.5) They're not a legal tool, they're a tool of fear. Sadly they are only void not illegal, which they should be. Of course that assumes the case is heard in California, which may not be the case (see Google hiring Kai-Fu Lee in 2005) [0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?division=7.&chapter=1.&part=2.&lawCode=BPC https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x...
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Of course that assumes the case is heard in California, It assumes California law is applied, which is not the same thing as the case being heard in California, though the two are loosely correlated.
- Washuu 9y ago
  Amazon/Twitch recently bought Curse last year. In the Amazon HR orientation/on-boarding meeting in the Curse Alabama office someone bluntly asked, "Why are you forcing this unfair non-compete contract on us and not the Curse Irvine office?" After a moment of awkward silence in the meeting room the Amazon HR representative answered, "Because it's legal to enforce it here." The Amazon non-compete contract has some very broad terminology that could be stretched in a court of law.
  - bittermang 9y ago
    And it only gets worse as the conglomerate grows. Due to my own history with Amazon as a Seller Support phone monkey, I probably couldn't get employ at Twitch or Curse, despite my resume in the games industry. Let alone something completely different at Woot, or Whole Foods, or the Washington Post. And that's not even getting in to a non-compete area specifically, just general employment as it relates to a child company and the mothership.
bittermang 9y ago
OK. Sure. Unenforceable in California. Now what about the other 49 states? My buddy in Pennsylvania couldn't get a job at the Apple Store because of a non compete with Best Buy. This extends beyond the bubble of the bay area and even tech. It's a problem in virtually any industry, anywhere.
- jaredklewis 9y ago
  IANAL, but I doubt your friend's non-compete with Best Buy was enforceable, unless of course he was dealing with trade secrets or managing long term sales relationships. I imagine the idea of a ordinary floor rep dealing with trade secrets would raise some eyebrows at court. http://www.beckreedriden.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/noncompetes-50-state-survey-chart-20170204.pdf http://www.beckreedriden.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/nonc...
  - bittermang 9y ago
    I also doubt an ordinary floor rep has the ability to press a case like that to court. Lawyers aren't free.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Would Best Buy really sue an ordinary floor rep, though?
      - lovich 9y ago
        To intimidate all the other employees? I'd believe it. Companies do act similarly when they go after individuals or mom and pop stores for trademark infrigement
        pmiller2 9y ago
        Trademark infringement is a little different, because a company has to protect its mark to avoid losing it.

GuiA 9y ago

California and federal laws say that you do, and that they don't.

raleighm 9y ago
Which federal laws do you mean? Contract law is a state thing.

jaredklewis 9y ago

You have what you want now. They are explicitly illegal in California, and difficult to enforce in other states.

masklinn 9y ago
> They are explicitly illegal in California Sadly not, they are only void, you can sue if the business tries to enforce it (Edwards v. Arthur Andersen LLP) but I'm pretty sure that's it.

masklinn 9y ago

In Cali, non-compete are not worth the paper they're printed on, all non-compete agreements (in or out of state) are void unless they apply to one of the statutory exemption of the BPC[0]: * selling the goodwill of a business (as part of or independently from the business itself) (16601) * dissolution of or disassociation from a partnership (16602) * dissolution of an LLC (16602.5) They're not a legal tool, they're a tool of fear. Sadly they are only void not illegal, which they should be. Of course that assumes the case is heard in California, which may not be the case (see Google hiring Kai-Fu Lee in 2005) [0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?division=7.&chapter=1.&part=2.&lawCode=BPC https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x...

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Of course that assumes the case is heard in California, It assumes California law is applied, which is not the same thing as the case being heard in California, though the two are loosely correlated.
Washuu 9y ago
Amazon/Twitch recently bought Curse last year. In the Amazon HR orientation/on-boarding meeting in the Curse Alabama office someone bluntly asked, "Why are you forcing this unfair non-compete contract on us and not the Curse Irvine office?" After a moment of awkward silence in the meeting room the Amazon HR representative answered, "Because it's legal to enforce it here." The Amazon non-compete contract has some very broad terminology that could be stretched in a court of law.
- bittermang 9y ago
  And it only gets worse as the conglomerate grows. Due to my own history with Amazon as a Seller Support phone monkey, I probably couldn't get employ at Twitch or Curse, despite my resume in the games industry. Let alone something completely different at Woot, or Whole Foods, or the Washington Post. And that's not even getting in to a non-compete area specifically, just general employment as it relates to a child company and the mothership.

bittermang 9y ago

OK. Sure. Unenforceable in California. Now what about the other 49 states? My buddy in Pennsylvania couldn't get a job at the Apple Store because of a non compete with Best Buy. This extends beyond the bubble of the bay area and even tech. It's a problem in virtually any industry, anywhere.

jaredklewis 9y ago
IANAL, but I doubt your friend's non-compete with Best Buy was enforceable, unless of course he was dealing with trade secrets or managing long term sales relationships. I imagine the idea of a ordinary floor rep dealing with trade secrets would raise some eyebrows at court. http://www.beckreedriden.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/noncompetes-50-state-survey-chart-20170204.pdf http://www.beckreedriden.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/nonc...
- bittermang 9y ago
  I also doubt an ordinary floor rep has the ability to press a case like that to court. Lawyers aren't free.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Would Best Buy really sue an ordinary floor rep, though?
    - lovich 9y ago
      To intimidate all the other employees? I'd believe it. Companies do act similarly when they go after individuals or mom and pop stores for trademark infrigement
      - pmiller2 9y ago
        Trademark infringement is a little different, because a company has to protect its mark to avoid losing it.