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Relevant difference between UK and American pedestrian lights: When you see the "Green man" in the UK, the cars will not cross your walkway. Contrast the US, wh
by meredydd 9y ago
Relevant difference between UK and American pedestrian lights: When you see the "Green man" in the UK, the cars will not cross your walkway. Contrast the US, where cars can and do legally cross an active pedestrian walkway (turning at a green light, turning right on a red light, etc - this tends to alarm British pedestrians abroad!).
At many junctions, this means no cars may have a green light while the pedestrians cross - so crossing diagonally is a natural extension.
(However, most large junctions have workarounds - usually turn-only/straight-only "filter" signals - which allow simultaneous but isolated pedestrian and car traffic. What's unusual about Oxford Circus is that it doesn't.)
- chrisseaton 9y ago> this tends to alarm British pedestrians abroad Yes I've experienced that alarm when in the US! I've been going to cross at a green light but cars are still moving across the crossing. Who has right of way?
- mfoy_ 9y agoThe pedestrian. You just have to master "the predestrian glare" of making slightly-judgmental eye contact with any drivers that look like they may be wanting to turn into where you want to walk. :)
- arthuredelstein 9y agoI wonder how this will work with self-driving cars. Making eye contact is not an option.
- crooked-v 9y agoThe self-driving car detects a human at the edge of the intersection and hesitates briefly. If the human begins crossing, it waits for them to cross; if the human doesn't, the car proceeds cautiously through the intersection, ready to brake smoothly if the human suddenly steps out.
- hosh 9y agoYup, and furthur refinements can detect intent, hesitation, emotion, and other kinds of social signalling. (Drivers, bikers, and pedestrians will use non-verbal cues to negotiate; this happens in other contexts too)
- _asummers 9y agoThe first court cases where someone purposefully throws themselves in front of a moving self driving car will be interesting. Obviously I hope this never happens, but it's inevitably going to happen at some point. Hopefully the sensors are gong to be good enough to be able to save those individuals with no injuries. Though I guess from the car's perspective, this is identical to an animal or child darting into traffic, so this will have to be accounted for in some capacity anyway.
- btown 9y agoIs there training data for suicidal pedestrians? Does it even happen often enough for a vision network to pick up on those queues?
- Sharlin 9y agoPeople purposefully jumping in front of (slowly) moving cars is enough of a problem in some parts of the world that basically every car has a dashcam now. Not suicidally though but trying to get compensation.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Sharlin 9y agoWell, the sensor system in a self-driving car conveniently fills the role of a dashcam as well. Logged sensor data will make many accident investigations much easier.
- 9y ago
- mcpherrinm 9y agoI've watched self-driving cars trying to make a right turn get "stuck" behind a continual stream of pedestrians. Human drivers will eventually aggressively poke through, but self-driving cars are a little too timid for that.
- philipodonnell 9y agoThey could move forward very very slowly
- mirimir 9y agoThat strategy sometimes works with crowds (e.g., home game weekends in college towns). But sometimes, things turn ugly.
- Trundle 9y agoGlare at its forward camera.
- hosh 9y agoThat can work if there is also an anthromorphasization (put a human-like face that people can relate too). There was another article talkinf along these lines -- a disabled person trying a telepresence bot for the first time at a tech con saya he did not get the usual courtesy or respect. I suspect people didn't pattern match on it being human. (I also found "glare at its forward camera" funny and ironic -- we humans have a lot to learn about relating to non-humans.)
- sjbp 9y agoIt is an option, and I think a pretty effective one in the future. If advanced enough, self-driving cars could learn the different cues we give each other to communicate (be it with a car driver, a bike rider, a pedestrian, or any other agent). It will be very interesting to see how this dynamic evolves over time.
- robbrown451 9y agoFor it to really be equivalent to eye contact, the car needs to somehow signal that it is aware of the pedestrian and their intent.
- icebraining 9y agoI can only hope they'll show old-timey clips on a screen, like Flubber's Weebo.
- dragonwriter 9y agoSelf-driving cars won't need the glare, because they will be programmed to respect right of way, including but not limited to pedestrian right of way, or the manufacturers will be crushed by recall/repair/replacements costs and defective product liability lawsuits. Individual drivers are a bigger enforcement problem.
- meredydd 9y agoIn British terms, the green light temporarily turns your pedestrian walkway into a zebra crossing. You have legal priority, but some drivers are assholes.
- larard 9y agoWell, arseholes spelling wise, but wankers would be my chosen vernacular in this situation. Agree completely otherwise.
- usaphp 9y agoThere is actually an official rule: "Remember, if a pedestrian makes eye contact with you, he or she is ready to cross the street. Yield to the pedestrian." [1] [1] - https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/right_of_way https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/right_of_...
- icantdrive55 9y agoThe pedestrian has the right of way. In CA, you aren't suspose to enter the crosswalk until the pedestrian is out of the crosswalk completely. The problem is people don't know this, and will honk. Cops in my county know the average driver doesn't know pedestrians can't be on the street before your vechicle enters the crosswalk. Meaning, if the cross walk is 300 yards, and it's you and the pedestrian. You need to wait for the pedestrian to set foot on the sidewalk. (They set up stings, but they are for Revenue collection. It's an easy ticket.) I do try to hurry across crosswalks. I don't understand the mentality of people who purposely walk slowly. Actually, I get it, but don't do that myself. To each their own?
- fshaun 9y agoAnother difference I appreciate is that UK traffic lights cycle red -> yellow -> green. So, given a red light I have at least 1-2 seconds that's safe, and usually more since the timing can be inferred from traffic patterns (cars won't get a green light while there is active cross traffic). I always look more at the vehicle lights instead of pedestrian lights -- I don't particularly trust drivers to pay attention to pedestrians or our signals...
- hanoz 9y agoMore accurately the sequence is red -> red & amber -> green -> amber -> red, so you can always tell which state is next.
- Cass 9y agoI'd never realized this, even after a year of living as a pedestrian in the UK, but this finally answers my question of why the pedestrian lights take so freaking LONG to turn green here. It may be intended as a pedestrian-friendly measure, but it FEELS like an intense annoyance, and the natural result is that everyone just crosses on red.
- repsilat 9y agoAt least in London another difference is that you don't often see traffic lights across the intersection from cars, so it is harder to peek at the traffic signals and know when your crossing is about to go (or whether that approaching car is going to stop or go through the intersection.) Annoying.
- webignition 9y agoAs a UK resident holidaying in California, I was confused both as a pedestrian and as a driver. As a pedestrian I learned to claim the right of way and cross when it seemed safe. As a driver I was unable to resolve my confusion regarding turning on red light. If there were no vehicles queued behind me I would wait for a green light. I would otherwise typically wait for a sufficient amount of beeping from other vehicles to then assume that turning on a red was what I should be doing.
- jnty 9y agoWere you aware that turning right on red is legal in most of the US but chose not to, or did you not know?
- bcraven 9y agoI usually choose not to turn on red when driving in the US when when it's busy. I consider it safer to wait for explicit priority.
- undersuit 9y agoThat's perfectly acceptable if you ask me. I have a cranky manual transmission, I don't want to put myself in a dangerous situation just because I have to accelerate at max speed and possibly stall the engine. At least, as far as I know there are no mandatory right turn on red laws in effect in the US
- walterstucco 9y agobeing Italian I never assume that cars WON'T cross my way
- undersuit 9y ago>Contrast the US, where cars can and do legally cross an active pedestrian walkway And they get angry when the pedestrian takes the right of way. Cars will consistently enter traffic and try to encourage me to get out of their way, i.e. they've begun their left turn and will continue to move at 5mph through the intersection which has worrying oncoming traffic, while I'm crossing the street at a crosswalk.