7 ms·
London has quite a few intersections that work this way: most famously, Oxford Circus. But most are not marked in any special way so there's nothing obvious to
by Reason077 9y ago
London has quite a few intersections that work this way: most famously, Oxford Circus. But most are not marked in any special way so there's nothing obvious to let you know you're allowed to cross diagonally.
I suspect the real reason for them is to improve the flow of car traffic at the expense of pedestrians - since pedestrians now only cross once in each light cycle instead of twice!
A more worrying recent trend (also in London) is to remove the pedestrian signals all together. Rather confusing when you first ecounter it - I guess you're just supposed to cross with the vehicle signals or "when it's clear".
- joefreeman 9y agoI wonder whether the Oxford Circus crossing is actually just an attempt to reduce the number of pedestrians walking around the outside edges of the junction - it's pretty disorientating coming out of the Tube and not knowing which corner you're on, and the entrances seem to get in the way of pedestrian traffic trying to cross non-diagonally.
- meredydd 9y agoRelevant difference between UK and American pedestrian lights: When you see the "Green man" in the UK, the cars will not cross your walkway. Contrast the US, where cars can and do legally cross an active pedestrian walkway (turning at a green light, turning right on a red light, etc - this tends to alarm British pedestrians abroad!). At many junctions, this means no cars may have a green light while the pedestrians cross - so crossing diagonally is a natural extension. (However, most large junctions have workarounds - usually turn-only/straight-only "filter" signals - which allow simultaneous but isolated pedestrian and car traffic. What's unusual about Oxford Circus is that it doesn't.)
- chrisseaton 9y ago> this tends to alarm British pedestrians abroad Yes I've experienced that alarm when in the US! I've been going to cross at a green light but cars are still moving across the crossing. Who has right of way?
- mfoy_ 9y agoThe pedestrian. You just have to master "the predestrian glare" of making slightly-judgmental eye contact with any drivers that look like they may be wanting to turn into where you want to walk. :)
- arthuredelstein 9y agoI wonder how this will work with self-driving cars. Making eye contact is not an option.
- crooked-v 9y agoThe self-driving car detects a human at the edge of the intersection and hesitates briefly. If the human begins crossing, it waits for them to cross; if the human doesn't, the car proceeds cautiously through the intersection, ready to brake smoothly if the human suddenly steps out.
- hosh 9y agoYup, and furthur refinements can detect intent, hesitation, emotion, and other kinds of social signalling. (Drivers, bikers, and pedestrians will use non-verbal cues to negotiate; this happens in other contexts too)
- _asummers 9y agoThe first court cases where someone purposefully throws themselves in front of a moving self driving car will be interesting. Obviously I hope this never happens, but it's inevitably going to happen at some point. Hopefully the sensors are gong to be good enough to be able to save those individuals with no injuries. Though I guess from the car's perspective, this is identical to an animal or child darting into traffic, so this will have to be accounted for in some capacity anyway.
- 9y ago
- fshaun 9y agoAnother difference I appreciate is that UK traffic lights cycle red -> yellow -> green. So, given a red light I have at least 1-2 seconds that's safe, and usually more since the timing can be inferred from traffic patterns (cars won't get a green light while there is active cross traffic). I always look more at the vehicle lights instead of pedestrian lights -- I don't particularly trust drivers to pay attention to pedestrians or our signals...
- hanoz 9y agoMore accurately the sequence is red -> red & amber -> green -> amber -> red, so you can always tell which state is next.
- Cass 9y agoI'd never realized this, even after a year of living as a pedestrian in the UK, but this finally answers my question of why the pedestrian lights take so freaking LONG to turn green here. It may be intended as a pedestrian-friendly measure, but it FEELS like an intense annoyance, and the natural result is that everyone just crosses on red.
- repsilat 9y agoAt least in London another difference is that you don't often see traffic lights across the intersection from cars, so it is harder to peek at the traffic signals and know when your crossing is about to go (or whether that approaching car is going to stop or go through the intersection.) Annoying.
- webignition 9y agoAs a UK resident holidaying in California, I was confused both as a pedestrian and as a driver. As a pedestrian I learned to claim the right of way and cross when it seemed safe. As a driver I was unable to resolve my confusion regarding turning on red light. If there were no vehicles queued behind me I would wait for a green light. I would otherwise typically wait for a sufficient amount of beeping from other vehicles to then assume that turning on a red was what I should be doing.
- jnty 9y agoWere you aware that turning right on red is legal in most of the US but chose not to, or did you not know?
- bcraven 9y agoI usually choose not to turn on red when driving in the US when when it's busy. I consider it safer to wait for explicit priority.
- undersuit 9y agoThat's perfectly acceptable if you ask me. I have a cranky manual transmission, I don't want to put myself in a dangerous situation just because I have to accelerate at max speed and possibly stall the engine. At least, as far as I know there are no mandatory right turn on red laws in effect in the US
- walterstucco 9y agobeing Italian I never assume that cars WON'T cross my way
- undersuit 9y ago>Contrast the US, where cars can and do legally cross an active pedestrian walkway And they get angry when the pedestrian takes the right of way. Cars will consistently enter traffic and try to encourage me to get out of their way, i.e. they've begun their left turn and will continue to move at 5mph through the intersection which has worrying oncoming traffic, while I'm crossing the street at a crosswalk.
- 21 9y agoI've crossed a few times Oxford Circus before I realized that it can be done in diagonal. It's totally not obvious. Even after seeing the cross from above (on Instagram).
- raldi 9y agoI'm not following re: "pedestrians only get to cross once". In traditional signaling, each crosswalk is also usable by pedestrians once per cycle; no?
- ubernostrum 9y agoA full cycle of the lights involves each direction of vehicle traffic getting a green light once. In a "scramble", pedestrians would only get one total walk signal per cycle of the lights. In a non-"scramble", pedestrians get multiple walk signals depending on direction, just like vehicles do. For example, if a north-south road intersects an east-west road, in a non-"scramble" there will be one walk signal for pedestrians going east-west who cross the north-south road, and one walk signal for pedestrians going north-south who cross the east-west road. Thus pedestrians would get a total of two walk signals per cycle.
- raldi 9y agoSure, under a traditional cycle, pedestrians get two opportunities, but each is for only half the crosswalks.
- jschwartzi 9y agoI would rather clearly own the intersection once than risk getting hit by some moron turning left twice.
- ams6110 9y agoRight -- you also have to consider left-turn cycles when the cross traffic is stopped but pedestrian signals will still be indicating "Don't Walk", and right-turn-on-red where you're counting on drivers seeing you in the crosswalk. Having one cycle exclusively for pedestrians, where there's no confusion, seems safer.
- neilparikh 9y agoAt least in the scramble I've used in Toronto, there's actually 3 walk signals: 1 for each direction (what a regular crosswalk would have) + 1 where you can go in any direction (and all cars face a red signal).
- ams6110 9y agoDowntown Nashville, Tennessee has these on Broadway where there is a lot of pedestrian traffic in and out of "honky tonks" and other attractions.
- pbh101 9y agoTo my knowledge there is one of these in Chicago on State street and (I believe) Jackson. It is near a college campus which I think is the reason for the special treatment for that intersection.
- tim333 9y agoThere are markings at Ox Circ but maybe a bit subtle http://themediablog.typepad.com/.a/6a011570c131b2970c0120a64c52fe970b-500wi http://themediablog.typepad.com/.a/6a011570c131b2970c0120a64...