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It's annoying that there isn't enough research on calorie restricted diets to conclusively show the benefits and drawbacks.

by brad0 9y ago

learc83 9y ago
Diet research is expensive because people are terrible at self reporting. Especially with something like calorie restriction. To get good data you really need to monitor people 24 hours a day.
- miguelrochefort 9y ago
  > To get good data you really need to monitor people 24 hours a day. Unfortunately people love their privacy too much to make that happen.
  - mikhailt 9y ago
    I doubt it has to do with privacy, have you seen how many selfies are out there with food shots and stuff? Plus, such studies could be funded to give people money for tracking this. I believe the problem isn't with privacy but just that it is difficult to keep notes of what you eat daily. Make a product that makes monitoring what you eat very easy to do and you can get more data that's solid. What Apple did with HealthKit did in fact help, we just need more of that. I know a buddy who lost weight easily because of a smartwatch (Apple Watch) that he uses to monitor his input because it is so easy and quick.
    - miguelrochefort 9y ago
      People should be more serious about nutrition. It's impossible to track and test nutrients if you're not disciplined about it. Ideally, you would only eat what you (or a coach, or an app) planned to eat. Most people should have a nutrition routine where they eat the same thing every day or week. Eating for pleasure should be the exception, not the norm. Tracking only the 5% of food that's not part of your routine would be a lot easier (especially if packaged and provides a bar code).
      - goldfeld 9y ago
        No, people should be less neurotic about their nutrition, eat less, and let go. Don't over think it or put up barriers to health.
        miguelrochefort 9y ago
        Most people are not qualified to feed themselves.
      - chiefalchemist 9y ago
        Agreed. Food is for nutrition. Instead we've made it into some sort of proxy for an orgasm. Yet ask people what they ate yesterday and they're likely unable to tell you. Point being, they we're so determined to eat something that "made them feel good" that they already forgot. So instead they should have ate for their body, not their mind. Pardon me, but I really think there's some truth to "fat and stupid."
  - sov 9y ago
    This happens frequently. See: metabolic wards.
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    We could also give incentives to prisoners for participating in health related studies. It gets a really bad wrap because of historical abuses, but it could really be a win/win. All the prisoners would need to be separated and lose access to the commissary. They would probably be willing to trade their commissary for access to an XBox in their cell or something similar. Then we can control exactly what they eat, and measure the effects of a calorie surplus or deficit over time. We could even give prisoners the same amount of calories but different macros, to finally prove the effects of a long term ketogenic diet are different than just calorie restriction. The food would have to be more palatable than what they receive now, and they would have to agree to consume 100% of it and not try and trade with other prisoners. This probably involves a guard who watches them eat in their cells. It would be costly, but not nearly as expensive as the controlled environment studies in a hospital (metabolic wards) that Gary Taubes has done before.
reasonattlm 9y ago
The CALERIE study data seems pretty compelling to me. What more do you want?
- hodder 9y ago
  Demonstrative evidence that shows meaningfully lower disease rates and longer life expectancy in calorie restricted cohorts of accurately tracked long term human trials. That is basically what most people would love to see. Unfortunately, studies like this are notoriously difficult to run due to terrible self reporting. To complete an accurate study like this would likely take constant monitoring and an administered diet for the participants.
collyw 9y ago
There is decent evidence in rat studies. Ok, not human, but its a good start.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I seem to remember primate studies haven't been so conclusive.
allsunny 9y ago
Diet research is notoriously difficult. If you have a chance (and haven't alreadY) pick-up Gary Taubes book, "The Calorie Myth." Even if you don't agree with his conclusions he does a great job in explaining the difficulty of diet research. It's why he prefaces ideas in his books with "I could be completely wrong about all of this." It's hard to completely trust any given study in the area and why there is a ton of conflicting information out there.
keymone 9y ago
do you think there will ever be enough? calorie restriction is just one, very vague detail about input for human body; macro distribution, amount of fiber, amount of water and many more are just glossed over. total weight or even breakdown by tissue type on the other hand is a very simplistic measure of the "output". blood glucose, white/brown fat distribution, hormonal balance, basal metabolic rate, blood pressure and many more - all depend from long-term diet choices. it's like trying to train a nn by providing 95% random noise with input and not bothering to understand 95% of output. seems like taking everything into account is just too expensive.
threepipeproblm 9y ago
Intermittent fasting does not necessarily entail calorie restriction. However, if low calorie diets work one mechanism is probably autophagy, and intermittent fasting with much more moderate calorie restriction (or without calorie restriction) will also stimulate autophagy. So one could potentially get some of the benefits of calorie restriction while avoiding some of the problems. All this said, fasting is an extra stressor on the body, I think... something to be aware of. Autophagy can also be achieved by limiting protein over a certain time window, and some have advocated this as a likely preventative for diseases like Parkinson's and Alzehiemer's, involving "plaques" that are normally cleaned up during authophagy.

It's annoying that there isn't enough research on calorie restricted diets to conclusively show the benefits and drawbacks.

by brad0 9y ago

It's annoying that there isn't enough research on calorie restricted diets to conclusively show the benefits and drawbacks.

learc83 9y ago

Diet research is expensive because people are terrible at self reporting. Especially with something like calorie restriction. To get good data you really need to monitor people 24 hours a day.

miguelrochefort 9y ago
> To get good data you really need to monitor people 24 hours a day. Unfortunately people love their privacy too much to make that happen.
- mikhailt 9y ago
  I doubt it has to do with privacy, have you seen how many selfies are out there with food shots and stuff? Plus, such studies could be funded to give people money for tracking this. I believe the problem isn't with privacy but just that it is difficult to keep notes of what you eat daily. Make a product that makes monitoring what you eat very easy to do and you can get more data that's solid. What Apple did with HealthKit did in fact help, we just need more of that. I know a buddy who lost weight easily because of a smartwatch (Apple Watch) that he uses to monitor his input because it is so easy and quick.
  - miguelrochefort 9y ago
    People should be more serious about nutrition. It's impossible to track and test nutrients if you're not disciplined about it. Ideally, you would only eat what you (or a coach, or an app) planned to eat. Most people should have a nutrition routine where they eat the same thing every day or week. Eating for pleasure should be the exception, not the norm. Tracking only the 5% of food that's not part of your routine would be a lot easier (especially if packaged and provides a bar code).
    - goldfeld 9y ago
      No, people should be less neurotic about their nutrition, eat less, and let go. Don't over think it or put up barriers to health.
      - miguelrochefort 9y ago
        Most people are not qualified to feed themselves.
    - chiefalchemist 9y ago
      Agreed. Food is for nutrition. Instead we've made it into some sort of proxy for an orgasm. Yet ask people what they ate yesterday and they're likely unable to tell you. Point being, they we're so determined to eat something that "made them feel good" that they already forgot. So instead they should have ate for their body, not their mind. Pardon me, but I really think there's some truth to "fat and stupid."
- sov 9y ago
  This happens frequently. See: metabolic wards.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  We could also give incentives to prisoners for participating in health related studies. It gets a really bad wrap because of historical abuses, but it could really be a win/win. All the prisoners would need to be separated and lose access to the commissary. They would probably be willing to trade their commissary for access to an XBox in their cell or something similar. Then we can control exactly what they eat, and measure the effects of a calorie surplus or deficit over time. We could even give prisoners the same amount of calories but different macros, to finally prove the effects of a long term ketogenic diet are different than just calorie restriction. The food would have to be more palatable than what they receive now, and they would have to agree to consume 100% of it and not try and trade with other prisoners. This probably involves a guard who watches them eat in their cells. It would be costly, but not nearly as expensive as the controlled environment studies in a hospital (metabolic wards) that Gary Taubes has done before.

reasonattlm 9y ago

The CALERIE study data seems pretty compelling to me. What more do you want?

hodder 9y ago
Demonstrative evidence that shows meaningfully lower disease rates and longer life expectancy in calorie restricted cohorts of accurately tracked long term human trials. That is basically what most people would love to see. Unfortunately, studies like this are notoriously difficult to run due to terrible self reporting. To complete an accurate study like this would likely take constant monitoring and an administered diet for the participants.

collyw 9y ago

There is decent evidence in rat studies. Ok, not human, but its a good start.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
I seem to remember primate studies haven't been so conclusive.

allsunny 9y ago

Diet research is notoriously difficult. If you have a chance (and haven't alreadY) pick-up Gary Taubes book, "The Calorie Myth." Even if you don't agree with his conclusions he does a great job in explaining the difficulty of diet research. It's why he prefaces ideas in his books with "I could be completely wrong about all of this." It's hard to completely trust any given study in the area and why there is a ton of conflicting information out there.

keymone 9y ago

do you think there will ever be enough? calorie restriction is just one, very vague detail about input for human body; macro distribution, amount of fiber, amount of water and many more are just glossed over. total weight or even breakdown by tissue type on the other hand is a very simplistic measure of the "output". blood glucose, white/brown fat distribution, hormonal balance, basal metabolic rate, blood pressure and many more - all depend from long-term diet choices. it's like trying to train a nn by providing 95% random noise with input and not bothering to understand 95% of output. seems like taking everything into account is just too expensive.

threepipeproblm 9y ago

Intermittent fasting does not necessarily entail calorie restriction. However, if low calorie diets work one mechanism is probably autophagy, and intermittent fasting with much more moderate calorie restriction (or without calorie restriction) will also stimulate autophagy. So one could potentially get some of the benefits of calorie restriction while avoiding some of the problems. All this said, fasting is an extra stressor on the body, I think... something to be aware of. Autophagy can also be achieved by limiting protein over a certain time window, and some have advocated this as a likely preventative for diseases like Parkinson's and Alzehiemer's, involving "plaques" that are normally cleaned up during authophagy.