5 ms·

> By the way: any analysis on how the victim of the abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim-blaming, even if you add a disclaimer claiming otherwis

by qubex 9y ago

> By the way: any analysis on how the victim of the abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim-blaming, even if you add a disclaimer claiming otherwise. No, no, a thousand times no! You make state these opinions with an absolute tone but that does not necessarily make them absolute truths. I can raise any issue I wish, provided I do so with the necessary respect, and nobody else has any right to shout me down or shut me up. ”I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” — Richard Feynman

gizmo 9y ago
Wait, so you have the right to raise every issue you wish but I don't have the right voice my disapproval or attach a negative label to what you say? The hypocrisy should make your head spin. Besides, this isn't about your _right_ to say something inappropriate, but to point out that something _is_ inappropriate. Depending on context some subjects are just off limits. Some type of comments are inappropriate in a thread about sexual harassment, just like some comments are inappropriate at a funeral.
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  You are completely mischaracterizing qubex's point. The objection is not that you are pointing out a specific statement is victim blaming, it's that you are painting an entire topic as "off limits" by trying to label anyone who brings up the topic, however respectfully and with a view toward future prevention, as a "victim blamer." Hacker News is one of the last places in the internet where I think there is (comparatively) a minimum of tribalism in discourse. What qubex and I are pushing back against is the idea is branding anyone who brings up this topic (or any topic, really) as essentially "the enemy" regardless of their intent.
  - gizmo 9y ago
    Sexism is off-limits, and victim blaming is sexist and so as a consequence off-limits. What is and what isn't victim blaming is well-defined: I'm not making this up as I go along. So this isn't about me or my tribe. I don't blame you or consider you "the enemy". Your understanding of victim blaming is simply wrong, and I encourage you to look it up on Google if you don't believe me.
    - qubex 9y ago
      Mine is neither sexism nor victim-blaming. I asked a simple question you decreed by fiat that asking that question was equivalent to shaming the victim. Shame on you!
- qubex 9y ago
  That is an absolutely tendentious mischaracterisation of my statement and my intent. You are trying to define a taboo that places my line of inquiry out of bounds so that the topic it subtends does not need to be addressed. That's a technique beneath the standards of this community where respectful inquiry is always pursued.
dang 9y ago
We detached this flamewar subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14695324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14695324 and marked it off-topic.

by qubex 9y ago

gizmo 9y ago

Wait, so you have the right to raise every issue you wish but I don't have the right voice my disapproval or attach a negative label to what you say? The hypocrisy should make your head spin. Besides, this isn't about your _right_ to say something inappropriate, but to point out that something _is_ inappropriate. Depending on context some subjects are just off limits. Some type of comments are inappropriate in a thread about sexual harassment, just like some comments are inappropriate at a funeral.

hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
You are completely mischaracterizing qubex's point. The objection is not that you are pointing out a specific statement is victim blaming, it's that you are painting an entire topic as "off limits" by trying to label anyone who brings up the topic, however respectfully and with a view toward future prevention, as a "victim blamer." Hacker News is one of the last places in the internet where I think there is (comparatively) a minimum of tribalism in discourse. What qubex and I are pushing back against is the idea is branding anyone who brings up this topic (or any topic, really) as essentially "the enemy" regardless of their intent.
- gizmo 9y ago
  Sexism is off-limits, and victim blaming is sexist and so as a consequence off-limits. What is and what isn't victim blaming is well-defined: I'm not making this up as I go along. So this isn't about me or my tribe. I don't blame you or consider you "the enemy". Your understanding of victim blaming is simply wrong, and I encourage you to look it up on Google if you don't believe me.
  - qubex 9y ago
    Mine is neither sexism nor victim-blaming. I asked a simple question you decreed by fiat that asking that question was equivalent to shaming the victim. Shame on you!
qubex 9y ago
That is an absolutely tendentious mischaracterisation of my statement and my intent. You are trying to define a taboo that places my line of inquiry out of bounds so that the topic it subtends does not need to be addressed. That's a technique beneath the standards of this community where respectful inquiry is always pursued.

dang 9y ago

We detached this flamewar subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14695324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14695324 and marked it off-topic.