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I don't think so. Society has gotten this weird notion that with a free service they deserve more than they actually do. It's free until they change it. If you

I don't think so. Society has gotten this weird notion that with a free service they deserve more than they actually do. It's free until they change it. If you build your e-commerce business on shaky ground (free services) there's an inherent risk it gets pulled out from under you at any moment.

BenchRouter 9y ago
Ehhh, let's not pretend it's not a two-way street. You offer your service for free because you want people to use it. Maybe people shouldn't expect much from free services, but free services also then shouldn't expect much from its users (i.e. that they might get angry quickly and drop their service on a whim). > If you build your... business on shaky ground (free services) there's an inherent risk it gets pulled out from under you at any moment. This also very much applies to Photobucket. This could very well be the thing that kills it.
- QuinnyPig 9y ago
  I can’t imagine anyone trusting Photobucket after this. Who’s to say they don’t pull this stunt again in a year for $3k?
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  Sure. I can agree with that. I've always thought that with any free service I've used that the naming implies it's temporary, such as "Hobby" or "Developer" and that's the extent it goes. When it shuts down or asks for money it's a cost/benefit analysis. There's companies that let you host for free, but eventually if all companies charge then they'll end up paying. I don't have any issue with users hopping from free service to free service but there's no contract between the parties with a free service besides that a TOS can change at any moment.
  - BenchRouter 9y ago
    Yeah that's fair, but I don't think anyone affected by this is preparing to file a lawsuit or implying there was a breach of contract. Other than basic human sympathy, I don't think too many posters here are really expressing any deep sympathy for those affected, either. People are more just questioning this decision from Photobucket's end: The sudden change in TOS is unlikely to go over well, and the price seems extremely steep. One wonders whether charging $10/month and sending out several explicit announcements beforehand would've resulted in a much better outcome. That being said, I'll concede that this move may turn out to be brilliant for Photobucket, so I suppose we'll see what happens. To make an analogy: Sure, you're free to be an asshole to people. No one's questioning that technically you have the right to be one. But don't be surprised when people don't want to be around you anymore, and if your goal is to make friends (customers) one wonders why you would decide on that course of action.
raleighm 9y ago
Right but the question is how much notice, how conspicuously. Not at all unreasonable to start charging. Seems unreasonable to me to only give one or two weeks notice, even if their terms permitted it.
matt4077 9y ago
How does that logic not apply to paid business? Why would payment change anything? With the right ToS, AWS could suddenly decide to charge $1/MB of outbound data. Want to see your data again? Pay up! There's nothing special about payment that makes such tactics impossible. Only their reputation keeps most companies from doing something like that. You can have a completely valid contractual relationship between two parties even if one side doesn't pay the other. In the real world, you can even acquire certain rights based on someone letting you do something long enough. Always walked through the neighbour's garden to get to your car faster? Some legal systems will consider this an established right after some time.
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  With the right TOS and no contract in place a business can raise prices at any times. Can you provide any examples of real life cases where something like walking through your neighbor'a garden became an established right? I'd be interested to see as that just feels like a hyperbole to me.
  - QuinnyPig 9y ago
    It’s called an easement. Real estate law is complex.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Can you provide any examples of real life cases where something like walking through your neighbor'a garden became an established right? If you want lots of example, Google “prescriptive easement cases”.
    - brogrammernot 9y ago
      This is fascinating. Thank you!
LarryPage 9y ago
"Use our service, it's free, we promise." ... "Fuck you, we have your stuff hostage, pay us."

BenchRouter 9y ago

Ehhh, let's not pretend it's not a two-way street. You offer your service for free because you want people to use it. Maybe people shouldn't expect much from free services, but free services also then shouldn't expect much from its users (i.e. that they might get angry quickly and drop their service on a whim). > If you build your... business on shaky ground (free services) there's an inherent risk it gets pulled out from under you at any moment. This also very much applies to Photobucket. This could very well be the thing that kills it.

QuinnyPig 9y ago
I can’t imagine anyone trusting Photobucket after this. Who’s to say they don’t pull this stunt again in a year for $3k?
brogrammernot 9y ago
Sure. I can agree with that. I've always thought that with any free service I've used that the naming implies it's temporary, such as "Hobby" or "Developer" and that's the extent it goes. When it shuts down or asks for money it's a cost/benefit analysis. There's companies that let you host for free, but eventually if all companies charge then they'll end up paying. I don't have any issue with users hopping from free service to free service but there's no contract between the parties with a free service besides that a TOS can change at any moment.
- BenchRouter 9y ago
  Yeah that's fair, but I don't think anyone affected by this is preparing to file a lawsuit or implying there was a breach of contract. Other than basic human sympathy, I don't think too many posters here are really expressing any deep sympathy for those affected, either. People are more just questioning this decision from Photobucket's end: The sudden change in TOS is unlikely to go over well, and the price seems extremely steep. One wonders whether charging $10/month and sending out several explicit announcements beforehand would've resulted in a much better outcome. That being said, I'll concede that this move may turn out to be brilliant for Photobucket, so I suppose we'll see what happens. To make an analogy: Sure, you're free to be an asshole to people. No one's questioning that technically you have the right to be one. But don't be surprised when people don't want to be around you anymore, and if your goal is to make friends (customers) one wonders why you would decide on that course of action.

raleighm 9y ago

Right but the question is how much notice, how conspicuously. Not at all unreasonable to start charging. Seems unreasonable to me to only give one or two weeks notice, even if their terms permitted it.

matt4077 9y ago

How does that logic not apply to paid business? Why would payment change anything? With the right ToS, AWS could suddenly decide to charge $1/MB of outbound data. Want to see your data again? Pay up! There's nothing special about payment that makes such tactics impossible. Only their reputation keeps most companies from doing something like that. You can have a completely valid contractual relationship between two parties even if one side doesn't pay the other. In the real world, you can even acquire certain rights based on someone letting you do something long enough. Always walked through the neighbour's garden to get to your car faster? Some legal systems will consider this an established right after some time.

brogrammernot 9y ago
With the right TOS and no contract in place a business can raise prices at any times. Can you provide any examples of real life cases where something like walking through your neighbor'a garden became an established right? I'd be interested to see as that just feels like a hyperbole to me.
- QuinnyPig 9y ago
  It’s called an easement. Real estate law is complex.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Can you provide any examples of real life cases where something like walking through your neighbor'a garden became an established right? If you want lots of example, Google “prescriptive easement cases”.
  - brogrammernot 9y ago
    This is fascinating. Thank you!

LarryPage 9y ago

"Use our service, it's free, we promise." ... "Fuck you, we have your stuff hostage, pay us."