6 ms·

this looks incredible low for a lead in london, even with 'up a bit'

by rogy 9y ago

jasoncartwright 9y ago
I took a 25% pay cut when taking a job at the BBC about 14yrs ago. It was worth it.
- callumlocke 9y ago
  What made it worth it?
lostboys67 9y ago
Not really tech talent is paid much less in London than SV Engineers are seen as a lot lower status :-( Unfortunately the BBC's FS Pension is now closed
- desarun 9y ago
  I'd disagree with that. Leads I know at several major London companies are in the 70-90k range. Pre-brexit exchange rates put that salary not too far off SF, plus lower living costs than the bay ($3000 for a one bed? No thanks). Hell, I don't know many contractors on less than 100k (once you do the math).
  - lostboys67 9y ago
    Don't think housing is cheaper in London than SV - its just public transport is better allowing for a longer distance commute Interesting but a contractor on 100k is only equivalent to circa 45k as a FTE using the 3x rule I would expect a contractor rate for a FTE of 80k to be in the 200k range. Also do they offer the same value in share options /rsu's etc. that SV companies do
    - goobynight 9y ago
      That's not how the 3x rule works. You don't use the 3x rule to compare yearly compensation.
    - desarun 9y ago
      Note that all of this is UK based. Startups in London will offer shares for senior positions in much the same way as San Fran, normally with a vestment period, but it's not as common. I'm not 100% on what the 3x rule is. What I do know is that most of my contractor friends are on around £500 per day, which assuming a 260-workday year is 130k. There's a couple of oracle DBA's on around 800pd, which is 208k. But then you have to administer a database & there's only so much I'd be prepared to do for money. As a contractor, normal tax rules don't apply (and are normally much more beneficial). So a contractor earning 90k & a FTE earning 90k still results in the contractor coming out miles ahead in terms of raw income. Obviously there's offsets to this. No sick pay, no paid leave, no free pension contributions etc.
      - lostboys67 9y ago
        The rule of thumb I was told for contractors is you calculate your day rate by multiplying your FTE rate by 3 Though you have to watch for IR35 a lot of contractors would fail ir35 and be stuck with a huge tax bill
        tmat 9y ago
        In my experience so far and what I was told was bank on 1000hrs worked in a year.. figure out how much you want to make in that many hours. You need to triple your FTE salary because insurance, taxes, and savings(401k)). For me that comes to about $105-125 an hour. My experience is that your price is set by how much work you want. When I first started I had a really low rate, and I complained to a much more seasoned freelancer that I had to much work.. and he responded with something that seems so obvious now, but at the time I didn't even think this way. He told me, "If you have to much work, you aren't charging enough." So over the next 3 or so months I kept raising my rates until I found a happy medium between the # of clients I have and how much I'm bringing in. My work has benefited from it because I'm not having to work 50hr weeks to make the same amount of money. The hours my clients are getting are much higher quality, and my work life balance is sane.

this looks incredible low for a lead in london, even with 'up a bit'

by rogy 9y ago

this looks incredible low for a lead in london, even with 'up a bit'

jasoncartwright 9y ago

I took a 25% pay cut when taking a job at the BBC about 14yrs ago. It was worth it.

callumlocke 9y ago
What made it worth it?

lostboys67 9y ago

Not really tech talent is paid much less in London than SV Engineers are seen as a lot lower status :-( Unfortunately the BBC's FS Pension is now closed

desarun 9y ago
I'd disagree with that. Leads I know at several major London companies are in the 70-90k range. Pre-brexit exchange rates put that salary not too far off SF, plus lower living costs than the bay ($3000 for a one bed? No thanks). Hell, I don't know many contractors on less than 100k (once you do the math).
- lostboys67 9y ago
  Don't think housing is cheaper in London than SV - its just public transport is better allowing for a longer distance commute Interesting but a contractor on 100k is only equivalent to circa 45k as a FTE using the 3x rule I would expect a contractor rate for a FTE of 80k to be in the 200k range. Also do they offer the same value in share options /rsu's etc. that SV companies do
  - goobynight 9y ago
    That's not how the 3x rule works. You don't use the 3x rule to compare yearly compensation.
  - desarun 9y ago
    Note that all of this is UK based. Startups in London will offer shares for senior positions in much the same way as San Fran, normally with a vestment period, but it's not as common. I'm not 100% on what the 3x rule is. What I do know is that most of my contractor friends are on around £500 per day, which assuming a 260-workday year is 130k. There's a couple of oracle DBA's on around 800pd, which is 208k. But then you have to administer a database & there's only so much I'd be prepared to do for money. As a contractor, normal tax rules don't apply (and are normally much more beneficial). So a contractor earning 90k & a FTE earning 90k still results in the contractor coming out miles ahead in terms of raw income. Obviously there's offsets to this. No sick pay, no paid leave, no free pension contributions etc.
    - lostboys67 9y ago
      The rule of thumb I was told for contractors is you calculate your day rate by multiplying your FTE rate by 3 Though you have to watch for IR35 a lot of contractors would fail ir35 and be stuck with a huge tax bill
      - tmat 9y ago
        In my experience so far and what I was told was bank on 1000hrs worked in a year.. figure out how much you want to make in that many hours. You need to triple your FTE salary because insurance, taxes, and savings(401k)). For me that comes to about $105-125 an hour. My experience is that your price is set by how much work you want. When I first started I had a really low rate, and I complained to a much more seasoned freelancer that I had to much work.. and he responded with something that seems so obvious now, but at the time I didn't even think this way. He told me, "If you have to much work, you aren't charging enough." So over the next 3 or so months I kept raising my rates until I found a happy medium between the # of clients I have and how much I'm bringing in. My work has benefited from it because I'm not having to work 50hr weeks to make the same amount of money. The hours my clients are getting are much higher quality, and my work life balance is sane.