8 ms·

Employee email claims leadership delayed acknowledging McClure’s harassment

56 points by mido22 9y ago

hyperliner 9y ago
Wow, it seems the McClure PR machinery is downvoting pretty straightforward comments and stories that don't appear to violate any HN rules! Go on boys! Remember your mother and sisters for effect as you do your hit job, and don't forget to take a shower after.
- dang 9y ago
  This breaks the HN guidelines badly. Insinuating astroturfing or shillage isn't allowed unless you have evidence, and baiting the opposing side in a political argument is trolling. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly, and you've did it in a particularly damaging way just a couple days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681366). Therefore we've banned this account. The divisiveness of this topic is more than sufficient to explain the downvotes you're seeing, and the bulk of the community response to this topic in recent threads runs against the direction you implied here.
  - hyperliner 9y ago
    I was not aware of this. my other comments are not actually trolling, regardless of what you and others say. If you read them, someone pointed out my comments were valid arguments and civil. I apologize for this last comment (not the ones from the other thread) because you are right, I have no evidence, and will accept my penalty.
wklauss 9y ago
This is a good example of the dynamics of harassment. What was perceived as a one incident a day ago is now a much more widespread issue. When talking about harassment keep in mind that for every voice that rises chances are many more have not come forward due to pressure or fear of consequences.
- nsnick 9y ago
  This is the sort of logic that ultimately destroys due process. "This person was accused so they must be guilty of the accusation... and much more!"
  - twobyfour 9y ago
    How about "This person was accused. Let's at least take the accusation seriously instead of dismissing it out of hand." The consequences of making a public accusation like this are generally negative for the accuser as much as or more than the person accused. Often even if the accusations result in a conviction in a court of law. Often even true accusations do not result in convictions. Sometimes even accusations of actual physical rape of an unconscious woman, accompanied by video evidence. Meanwhile the accuser's life gets turned upside down. They're demonized. Their every past relationship is scrutinized. They're accused of "asking for it" and not taking necessary precautions. Their reputation is dragged through the mud. Their career ends because they're deemed a troublemaker and nobody wants to alienate the boys club, nor work with someone who might have the audacity to call out colleagues or superiors on their misbehavior. The person they accused is defended and excused as being drunk or, well, "boys will be boys". So, yeah, every now and then someone makes a false accusation. By for every true accusation there are typically many more victims who were too afraid of the consequences of speaking up.
guard0g 9y ago
Silence is the enemy of justice.
hyperliner 9y ago
The leadership of this organization is complicit. It's disingenuous to pretend they "just found out." There are enough signals that indicate that they let "Dave be Dave." They let this continue on for years. Terminate this organization for the good of those involved and their investors (some of whom also likely knew).
- tyingq 9y ago
  This presentation of his seems like it should have raised some eyebrows: https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-angel-13504703 https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-...
  - nsnick 9y ago
    It looks like Donald Trump made it.
  - BigMan555 9y ago
    Wow, that presentation is pretty shocking. How on Earth did he get away with both the harassment and the crude commentary for so long? In retrospect, knowing how he was treating women for years and looking at a presentation like this, it seems almost as if he was taunting the general consumer tech public with his behavior.
hyperliner 9y ago
“Due to the sensitivity of personnel issues and the privacy of all involved, the investigation was kept confidential.” Wow, there is a predator in the group, but "privacy"?
- sokoloff 9y ago
  Privacy concerns of the victims is a serious point to be respected.
  - hyperliner 9y ago
    I agree with you. Thanks for bringing this up to the comment I made in rage and in haste. Maybe victims' privacy can be protected while removing a predator from the setting.
hitekker 9y ago
The timing and delivery of Dave's "I'm a creep, I'm sorry." mea culpa now seems more logical to me. A person who has committed transgression B, which is one-level more reprehensible and more opaque than transgression A, will admit to A in the hopes of forestalling a deeper inquiry into B. I don't know what to call this rhetorical tactic (fallacy?), but I imagine sex offenders must employ it regularly to mitigate public backlash.
- dsacco 9y ago
  I wish there was a name for that too, though I wouldn't call it a fallacy - more of a game theoretic strategy that plays out in any kind of adversarial situation. I've most commonly noticed it in lying: given two parties with imperfect information about each other, one is lying and the other is sniffing out the lie. The liar predicts, on a basic cost-benefit analysis, that "throwing away" information that satisfies a bar of suspicion will be enough indirection to quell further inquiry, because acting perfectly erudite won't "win." The liar doesn't value this information much or at all (and more importantly, knows that the other party doesn't really value that information much either), but knows that the inquiry will be dropped because the other party will think they value the information enough for it to be a confession.
- draw_down 9y ago
  Plus you have a bunch of people who essentially defended him with all the talk of how social settings can be confusing and we all make mistakes and we're not robots and bladiblah. I bet a lot of them will either ignore this or just double down.
- tdeck 9y ago
  I'd call it a kind of PR plea-bargaining.
- steve_g 9y ago
  It is called a "limited hangout." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout
ajkdjfsa 9y ago
This won't stop until harassers face consequences. We must make sacrifices and kill the ones who harass or assault. If we don't want to kill them when it occurs, then when we are in our seventies and eighties and about to die anyway we must kill not our harassers but others who are likely to harass. It's the only way to stop the problem.
dhkkkfff 9y ago
We must kill the ones who harass.
dhkkkfff 9y ago
We must kill our harassers. It's the only way to stop the problem.

56 points by mido22 9y ago

Wow, it seems the McClure PR machinery is downvoting pretty straightforward comments and stories that don't appear to violate any HN rules! Go on boys! Remember your mother and sisters for effect as you do your hit job, and don't forget to take a shower after.

dang 9y ago
This breaks the HN guidelines badly. Insinuating astroturfing or shillage isn't allowed unless you have evidence, and baiting the opposing side in a political argument is trolling. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly, and you've did it in a particularly damaging way just a couple days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14681366). Therefore we've banned this account. The divisiveness of this topic is more than sufficient to explain the downvotes you're seeing, and the bulk of the community response to this topic in recent threads runs against the direction you implied here.
- hyperliner 9y ago
  I was not aware of this. my other comments are not actually trolling, regardless of what you and others say. If you read them, someone pointed out my comments were valid arguments and civil. I apologize for this last comment (not the ones from the other thread) because you are right, I have no evidence, and will accept my penalty.

wklauss 9y ago

This is a good example of the dynamics of harassment. What was perceived as a one incident a day ago is now a much more widespread issue. When talking about harassment keep in mind that for every voice that rises chances are many more have not come forward due to pressure or fear of consequences.

nsnick 9y ago
This is the sort of logic that ultimately destroys due process. "This person was accused so they must be guilty of the accusation... and much more!"
- twobyfour 9y ago
  How about "This person was accused. Let's at least take the accusation seriously instead of dismissing it out of hand." The consequences of making a public accusation like this are generally negative for the accuser as much as or more than the person accused. Often even if the accusations result in a conviction in a court of law. Often even true accusations do not result in convictions. Sometimes even accusations of actual physical rape of an unconscious woman, accompanied by video evidence. Meanwhile the accuser's life gets turned upside down. They're demonized. Their every past relationship is scrutinized. They're accused of "asking for it" and not taking necessary precautions. Their reputation is dragged through the mud. Their career ends because they're deemed a troublemaker and nobody wants to alienate the boys club, nor work with someone who might have the audacity to call out colleagues or superiors on their misbehavior. The person they accused is defended and excused as being drunk or, well, "boys will be boys". So, yeah, every now and then someone makes a false accusation. By for every true accusation there are typically many more victims who were too afraid of the consequences of speaking up.

guard0g 9y ago

Silence is the enemy of justice.

hyperliner 9y ago

The leadership of this organization is complicit. It's disingenuous to pretend they "just found out." There are enough signals that indicate that they let "Dave be Dave." They let this continue on for years. Terminate this organization for the good of those involved and their investors (some of whom also likely knew).

tyingq 9y ago
This presentation of his seems like it should have raised some eyebrows: https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-angel-13504703 https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-...
- nsnick 9y ago
  It looks like Donald Trump made it.
- BigMan555 9y ago
  Wow, that presentation is pretty shocking. How on Earth did he get away with both the harassment and the crude commentary for so long? In retrospect, knowing how he was treating women for years and looking at a presentation like this, it seems almost as if he was taunting the general consumer tech public with his behavior.

hyperliner 9y ago

“Due to the sensitivity of personnel issues and the privacy of all involved, the investigation was kept confidential.” Wow, there is a predator in the group, but "privacy"?

sokoloff 9y ago
Privacy concerns of the victims is a serious point to be respected.
- hyperliner 9y ago
  I agree with you. Thanks for bringing this up to the comment I made in rage and in haste. Maybe victims' privacy can be protected while removing a predator from the setting.

hitekker 9y ago

The timing and delivery of Dave's "I'm a creep, I'm sorry." mea culpa now seems more logical to me. A person who has committed transgression B, which is one-level more reprehensible and more opaque than transgression A, will admit to A in the hopes of forestalling a deeper inquiry into B. I don't know what to call this rhetorical tactic (fallacy?), but I imagine sex offenders must employ it regularly to mitigate public backlash.

dsacco 9y ago
I wish there was a name for that too, though I wouldn't call it a fallacy - more of a game theoretic strategy that plays out in any kind of adversarial situation. I've most commonly noticed it in lying: given two parties with imperfect information about each other, one is lying and the other is sniffing out the lie. The liar predicts, on a basic cost-benefit analysis, that "throwing away" information that satisfies a bar of suspicion will be enough indirection to quell further inquiry, because acting perfectly erudite won't "win." The liar doesn't value this information much or at all (and more importantly, knows that the other party doesn't really value that information much either), but knows that the inquiry will be dropped because the other party will think they value the information enough for it to be a confession.
draw_down 9y ago
Plus you have a bunch of people who essentially defended him with all the talk of how social settings can be confusing and we all make mistakes and we're not robots and bladiblah. I bet a lot of them will either ignore this or just double down.
tdeck 9y ago
I'd call it a kind of PR plea-bargaining.
steve_g 9y ago
It is called a "limited hangout." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

ajkdjfsa 9y ago

This won't stop until harassers face consequences. We must make sacrifices and kill the ones who harass or assault. If we don't want to kill them when it occurs, then when we are in our seventies and eighties and about to die anyway we must kill not our harassers but others who are likely to harass. It's the only way to stop the problem.

dhkkkfff 9y ago

We must kill the ones who harass.

dhkkkfff 9y ago

We must kill our harassers. It's the only way to stop the problem.