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> Asking to sleep with someone and trying to kiss her, and then leaving when being told "no", is not sexual assault; That's not an accurate summary of her acco

> Asking to sleep with someone and trying to kiss her, and then leaving when being told "no", is not sexual assault; That's not an accurate summary of her account. He'd been rebuffed repeatedly and clearly before forcing her into a corner and trying to kiss her. While the exact legal definition of "sexual assault" varies depending on the jurisdiction, if it came down to a court decision I don't like his chances.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
enriquto 9y ago
> ... forcing her into a corner ... I did nor interpret her text that way. To be fair, the whole text is very confusing for an article that purports to be "shedding light". The sentence that talks about the corner is this: "On the way out, he pushed himself onto me to the point where I was backed into a corner, made contact to kiss me, and said (...)" Now, this is extremely vague and can mean anything. He was already going out, but she was in the way, and the exit door was on a corner? He pushed himself without touching her (because the contact was later, during the kiss attempt)? This can be construed as assault or as a normal goodbye when leaving the house of somebody. It is infuriating that this crucial part of the text (where the alleged assault happens), is extremely vague. Moreover, the fact that the text is riddled with bogus claims like "unwanted propositions", does not play in favor of its credibility. That's actually the whole point of propositions, to see if you are wanted or not! What does it matter if a proposition is wanted or not? This is ridiculous. In the end, this noise plays against the victims of assault. When somebody is assaulted, she should go immediately to the police, not write a vague article three years later, mixing real problems with imaginary ones in the same list.
- grey-area 9y ago
  Now, this is extremely vague and can mean anything. He was already going out, but she was in the way, and the exit door was on a corner?...This can be construed as assault or as a normal goodbye when leaving the house of somebody. A normal goodbye is not forced on someone who has repeatedly said no to advances. The account was really quite clear, far clearer than McClure's apology. And yet you feel the need to make up details (where the door was etc) in order to try to excuse his behaviour, and call her a liar. Why is that? Why do you think she would lie in this situation and he would not? Your response says more about you than her. Also, your incredulous response is the perfect illustration of why this woman didn't go the police and go public with her story years ago - she was in a vulnerable position, and would be slandered and called a liar if she made the claims public, and likely disbelieved by most of the men she worked with and then calumnied in court by well paid lawyers. The woman has zero incentive to lie, and frankly very little incentive in our current society to come forward, it is highly likely she is telling the truth in this situation simply because the balance of power likes with McClure and if she lied her career would be over (it will be harder even if she tells the truth). The reaction on HN to these stories has been damning (for the global tech industry) - it's clear tech has a long way to go before even confronting these issues truthfully and without prejudice, let alone actually dealing with them. The first step to dealing with this problem properly is not to write long screeds about how this woman might well be lying (the implication being this is a common occurrence, not an outlier), but to accept her story at face value - leave it to the police or those investigating the incident to verify it.
  - enriquto 9y ago
    I do not believe the author is lying. I honestly do not understand the relevance problem that she is reporting. She cried after an awkward interaction? This happened to me all the time when I was younger, no big deal really.
    - jpetso 9y ago
      The "awkward interaction" here is being physically intimidated by someone who doesn't respect being told No, who is big enough to overpower you and who is in a position. Of power with clear conflict of interest. It's great that you wouldn't be terrified in this kind of situation. It's also important to know that not everyone feels the same way that you do, and that it's entirely reasonable and expected for someone to be scared shitless given the situation described. It's not their fault to feel that way, and they're not the ones who should "grow a pair". Everyone here needs to make sure that physical intimidation doesn't happen, and if you're not sure about whether it's wanted, get a clear approval before you storm onto someone.
    - danso 9y ago
      Maybe she was crying because she felt the encounter was more than awkward. Seeing as it she believes it constituted assault, she may have been emotional because she had worried that it could have become much worse for her, McClure being bigger and stronger than her, and also likely inebriated. She was probBly emotional, based on her account, because she was put in a terrible situation where she had to keep silent for the sake of her company.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Smugly declaring "The account was really quite clear" and then attacking with an ill-intent ad-hom "yet you feel the need to make up details ... in order to try to excuse.." is not constructive. > Your response says more about you than her This bullshit. You are not her, you have no more information than anyone else here. Please cut out the ad-homs. > long screeds about how this woman might well be lying Where was this claimed in this thread? Please, quote the exact words.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

enriquto 9y ago

> ... forcing her into a corner ... I did nor interpret her text that way. To be fair, the whole text is very confusing for an article that purports to be "shedding light". The sentence that talks about the corner is this: "On the way out, he pushed himself onto me to the point where I was backed into a corner, made contact to kiss me, and said (...)" Now, this is extremely vague and can mean anything. He was already going out, but she was in the way, and the exit door was on a corner? He pushed himself without touching her (because the contact was later, during the kiss attempt)? This can be construed as assault or as a normal goodbye when leaving the house of somebody. It is infuriating that this crucial part of the text (where the alleged assault happens), is extremely vague. Moreover, the fact that the text is riddled with bogus claims like "unwanted propositions", does not play in favor of its credibility. That's actually the whole point of propositions, to see if you are wanted or not! What does it matter if a proposition is wanted or not? This is ridiculous. In the end, this noise plays against the victims of assault. When somebody is assaulted, she should go immediately to the police, not write a vague article three years later, mixing real problems with imaginary ones in the same list.

grey-area 9y ago
Now, this is extremely vague and can mean anything. He was already going out, but she was in the way, and the exit door was on a corner?...This can be construed as assault or as a normal goodbye when leaving the house of somebody. A normal goodbye is not forced on someone who has repeatedly said no to advances. The account was really quite clear, far clearer than McClure's apology. And yet you feel the need to make up details (where the door was etc) in order to try to excuse his behaviour, and call her a liar. Why is that? Why do you think she would lie in this situation and he would not? Your response says more about you than her. Also, your incredulous response is the perfect illustration of why this woman didn't go the police and go public with her story years ago - she was in a vulnerable position, and would be slandered and called a liar if she made the claims public, and likely disbelieved by most of the men she worked with and then calumnied in court by well paid lawyers. The woman has zero incentive to lie, and frankly very little incentive in our current society to come forward, it is highly likely she is telling the truth in this situation simply because the balance of power likes with McClure and if she lied her career would be over (it will be harder even if she tells the truth). The reaction on HN to these stories has been damning (for the global tech industry) - it's clear tech has a long way to go before even confronting these issues truthfully and without prejudice, let alone actually dealing with them. The first step to dealing with this problem properly is not to write long screeds about how this woman might well be lying (the implication being this is a common occurrence, not an outlier), but to accept her story at face value - leave it to the police or those investigating the incident to verify it.
- enriquto 9y ago
  I do not believe the author is lying. I honestly do not understand the relevance problem that she is reporting. She cried after an awkward interaction? This happened to me all the time when I was younger, no big deal really.
  - jpetso 9y ago
    The "awkward interaction" here is being physically intimidated by someone who doesn't respect being told No, who is big enough to overpower you and who is in a position. Of power with clear conflict of interest. It's great that you wouldn't be terrified in this kind of situation. It's also important to know that not everyone feels the same way that you do, and that it's entirely reasonable and expected for someone to be scared shitless given the situation described. It's not their fault to feel that way, and they're not the ones who should "grow a pair". Everyone here needs to make sure that physical intimidation doesn't happen, and if you're not sure about whether it's wanted, get a clear approval before you storm onto someone.
  - danso 9y ago
    Maybe she was crying because she felt the encounter was more than awkward. Seeing as it she believes it constituted assault, she may have been emotional because she had worried that it could have become much worse for her, McClure being bigger and stronger than her, and also likely inebriated. She was probBly emotional, based on her account, because she was put in a terrible situation where she had to keep silent for the sake of her company.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  Smugly declaring "The account was really quite clear" and then attacking with an ill-intent ad-hom "yet you feel the need to make up details ... in order to try to excuse.." is not constructive. > Your response says more about you than her This bullshit. You are not her, you have no more information than anyone else here. Please cut out the ad-homs. > long screeds about how this woman might well be lying Where was this claimed in this thread? Please, quote the exact words.