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Sorry but the rules aren't black and white like that, "Too much eye contact" "Your vibe get flirty" (or conversely "Your vibe gets weird") gets thrown in; it's

Sorry but the rules aren't black and white like that, "Too much eye contact" "Your vibe get flirty" (or conversely "Your vibe gets weird") gets thrown in; it's anxiety inducing when you have to worry about anything that's natural or involuntary when in the presence of someone you're attracted to being policed as causing discomfort to someone. Hence enshrining detailed coordinates means you don't have to worry about that (presuming the list actually excludes such involuntary innocuous behavioral changes as extra eye contact).

ctvo 9y ago
Where do they get thrown in? Outside of internet forums where men come up with absurd situations to justify their feelings of prosecution, who is exactly reporting co-workers in the Valley for too much eye contact? You're in a comment thread about sexual assault for reference.
- orthoganol 9y ago
  Oh c'mon, it's a thread about solutions too, which was the focus of my original comment; I intended it to be "Thanks for a solution that is helpful to guys anxious about all of this," not a detailed discussion about the validity of those feelings or anxiety. If you insist on the latter, This has nothing to do with "men forums," thanks. People I know working in tech actually think holding eye contact is harassment. I had a female coworker complain about the vibe of another coworker who was clearly attracted to her; just the vibe, imagine how that affected other coworkers when that got around? You're free to dismiss this sentiment, but it's still something on the mind of a large group of well meaning guys. Again, enumerating detailed descriptions feels like a good solution for everyone.
  - twobyfour 9y ago
    Imagine a 300-lb biker dude at your workplace seemed to hang near you a lot. Made a lot of eye contact. Stood maybe a few inches too close. Seemed to have an interest in you. And didn't seem to notice your non-verbal "go away" signals like walking away, turning your back, stepping away to regain your personal space, etc. The guy clearly has an interest in you. There's nothing specific you can accuse him of, but he makes you uncomfortable. By persisting despite your attempts at rebuff he's implied that he doesn't respect your boundaries. Maybe it'll turn out that he'll leave you alone entirely. He hasn't done any one thing you can accuse him of. But he's giving off a "vibe" (which is an inarticulate way of saying "engaging in subtle behaviors") that in your past experience have been a prelude to anything from uninvited touching to stalking to physical attack. Thus his presence makes you anxious and interferes with your ability to do work because your brain is in constant fear/alert mode. Is this a tenable situation?

ctvo 9y ago

Where do they get thrown in? Outside of internet forums where men come up with absurd situations to justify their feelings of prosecution, who is exactly reporting co-workers in the Valley for too much eye contact? You're in a comment thread about sexual assault for reference.

orthoganol 9y ago
Oh c'mon, it's a thread about solutions too, which was the focus of my original comment; I intended it to be "Thanks for a solution that is helpful to guys anxious about all of this," not a detailed discussion about the validity of those feelings or anxiety. If you insist on the latter, This has nothing to do with "men forums," thanks. People I know working in tech actually think holding eye contact is harassment. I had a female coworker complain about the vibe of another coworker who was clearly attracted to her; just the vibe, imagine how that affected other coworkers when that got around? You're free to dismiss this sentiment, but it's still something on the mind of a large group of well meaning guys. Again, enumerating detailed descriptions feels like a good solution for everyone.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  Imagine a 300-lb biker dude at your workplace seemed to hang near you a lot. Made a lot of eye contact. Stood maybe a few inches too close. Seemed to have an interest in you. And didn't seem to notice your non-verbal "go away" signals like walking away, turning your back, stepping away to regain your personal space, etc. The guy clearly has an interest in you. There's nothing specific you can accuse him of, but he makes you uncomfortable. By persisting despite your attempts at rebuff he's implied that he doesn't respect your boundaries. Maybe it'll turn out that he'll leave you alone entirely. He hasn't done any one thing you can accuse him of. But he's giving off a "vibe" (which is an inarticulate way of saying "engaging in subtle behaviors") that in your past experience have been a prelude to anything from uninvited touching to stalking to physical attack. Thus his presence makes you anxious and interferes with your ability to do work because your brain is in constant fear/alert mode. Is this a tenable situation?