4 ms·

It's probably some mix of a lack of impulse control and enjoying the chase. He meets an attractive woman and pursues her, without stopping to think whether or n

It's probably some mix of a lack of impulse control and enjoying the chase. He meets an attractive woman and pursues her, without stopping to think whether or not what he's doing is inappropriate or even assault. Edit: I just finished reading the article. I hope this comment doesn't seem like I'm dismissing him as "Dave being Dave", because what he did was horrible. Plying her with copious amounts of alcohol and then backing her into a corner, refusing to leave her house. That's really messed up, like a frat boy's limited understanding of consent.

qubex 9y ago
What I don't understand is why she kept drinking what he was pouring. (This is absolutely not a ”she was looking for it” remark... I'm just curious why in her initially sober state she had less incentive to avoid risk than when she was a little inebriated. His behaviour is absolutely nothing but despicable.)
- CPLX 9y ago
  Have you ever spent a lot of time around people you look up to and respect professionally and/or who are a bit famous? You get flustered and want to be liked and accepted. It's natural, and the burden is on the person in the more powerful position not to exploit that.
  - qubex 9y ago
    A long while ago I made the decision that I would never drink if I were not comfortable with the situation. Trying to impress somebody is a situation I am not comfortable with, so in this particular situation I would not drink. I consider this a sound policy (but then of course, of course I would, because it is my policy, so I'm biased).
    - CPLX 9y ago
      That's nice in theory, but as long as sharing drinks with people is the world's most preeminent traditional method for socializing and turning casual acquaintances into close connections you're going to be necessarily swimming up stream with that policy.
      - qubex 9y ago
        It's not a theory, it's my practice. There's many cultures/religions where drinking is not allowed and somehow they manage to socialise too. I just say "thank you, but no thank you, I don't drink" and that's the end of it, the one time somebody was pushy I just remarked I'm on medication (little white lie there) and that was it. Plus, incidentally, this is Malaysia... I lived in Malaysia for several years in the mid 2000s. There's a lot of heavy social drinking there but there's also a predominant Muslim culture (the Malays) who in theory should be barred from imbibing alcohol. As such, Malaysians are, in my experience, very adept at mixing in social situations where copious drinking is occurring while still allowing for some members that abstain from doing so on cultural grounds not to fell out of place. It isn't impossible to do. It isn't even difficult to do. In fact it's an absolute non-issue. Now, this is not terribly relevant in the present context (this was her house, I presume the alcohol was taken from her drinks cabinet, & cetera) but you should never allow anybody to pressure you into drinking because of social pressure. That somehow you seem to believe that the social situation begets the behaviour is a bit alarming.
        CPLX 9y ago
        Well yes. If you live in a Muslim country you may have a different perspective.
        qubex 9y ago
        I think I expressed myself badly. I'm English/Italian and live in Italy. However I lived in Malaysia in the mid-2000s. These events took place in Malaysia. As I understand it the victim is a Malaysian national. Therefore I consider my experience of the place and culture to be somewhat relevant, or at the very least, evidence that other modes of behaviour are possible.
- gizmo 9y ago
  Because drinking a bit too much during a party is no big deal. Remember the part where she was surprised to find herself alone with Dave? That's when she suddenly realized what was going on. (By the way: any analysis on how the victim of abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim blaming, even if you add a disclaimer stating otherwise.)
  - hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
    > By the way: any analysis on how the victim of abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim blaming, even if you add a disclaimer stating otherwise. If I leave my car running with the keys in it in a bad part of town, and my car gets stolen, the thief is still totally to blame, but don't you think there are better precautions I could have taken? Is there a way to discuss that without immediately shutting it down as victim blaming? FWIW, I do NOT think Ms. Yeo did anything resembling the car key example above. I think everything she described (having drinks in a group with friends and business partners) is absolutely something anyone should be able to do without fear of being on the receiving end of what Mr. McClure did. But I still think there should be a way to have honest conversations about taking precautions against crime, that we for some reason think are acceptable to have in all other discussions of crime EXCEPT sexual assault.
    - qubex 9y ago
      I'm sorry they voted you down. I absolutely agree with you.

qubex 9y ago

What I don't understand is why she kept drinking what he was pouring. (This is absolutely not a ”she was looking for it” remark... I'm just curious why in her initially sober state she had less incentive to avoid risk than when she was a little inebriated. His behaviour is absolutely nothing but despicable.)

CPLX 9y ago
Have you ever spent a lot of time around people you look up to and respect professionally and/or who are a bit famous? You get flustered and want to be liked and accepted. It's natural, and the burden is on the person in the more powerful position not to exploit that.
- qubex 9y ago
  A long while ago I made the decision that I would never drink if I were not comfortable with the situation. Trying to impress somebody is a situation I am not comfortable with, so in this particular situation I would not drink. I consider this a sound policy (but then of course, of course I would, because it is my policy, so I'm biased).
  - CPLX 9y ago
    That's nice in theory, but as long as sharing drinks with people is the world's most preeminent traditional method for socializing and turning casual acquaintances into close connections you're going to be necessarily swimming up stream with that policy.
    - qubex 9y ago
      It's not a theory, it's my practice. There's many cultures/religions where drinking is not allowed and somehow they manage to socialise too. I just say "thank you, but no thank you, I don't drink" and that's the end of it, the one time somebody was pushy I just remarked I'm on medication (little white lie there) and that was it. Plus, incidentally, this is Malaysia... I lived in Malaysia for several years in the mid 2000s. There's a lot of heavy social drinking there but there's also a predominant Muslim culture (the Malays) who in theory should be barred from imbibing alcohol. As such, Malaysians are, in my experience, very adept at mixing in social situations where copious drinking is occurring while still allowing for some members that abstain from doing so on cultural grounds not to fell out of place. It isn't impossible to do. It isn't even difficult to do. In fact it's an absolute non-issue. Now, this is not terribly relevant in the present context (this was her house, I presume the alcohol was taken from her drinks cabinet, & cetera) but you should never allow anybody to pressure you into drinking because of social pressure. That somehow you seem to believe that the social situation begets the behaviour is a bit alarming.
      - CPLX 9y ago
        Well yes. If you live in a Muslim country you may have a different perspective.
        qubex 9y ago
        I think I expressed myself badly. I'm English/Italian and live in Italy. However I lived in Malaysia in the mid-2000s. These events took place in Malaysia. As I understand it the victim is a Malaysian national. Therefore I consider my experience of the place and culture to be somewhat relevant, or at the very least, evidence that other modes of behaviour are possible.
gizmo 9y ago
Because drinking a bit too much during a party is no big deal. Remember the part where she was surprised to find herself alone with Dave? That's when she suddenly realized what was going on. (By the way: any analysis on how the victim of abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim blaming, even if you add a disclaimer stating otherwise.)
- hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
  > By the way: any analysis on how the victim of abuse made sub-optimal decisions is _always_ victim blaming, even if you add a disclaimer stating otherwise. If I leave my car running with the keys in it in a bad part of town, and my car gets stolen, the thief is still totally to blame, but don't you think there are better precautions I could have taken? Is there a way to discuss that without immediately shutting it down as victim blaming? FWIW, I do NOT think Ms. Yeo did anything resembling the car key example above. I think everything she described (having drinks in a group with friends and business partners) is absolutely something anyone should be able to do without fear of being on the receiving end of what Mr. McClure did. But I still think there should be a way to have honest conversations about taking precautions against crime, that we for some reason think are acceptable to have in all other discussions of crime EXCEPT sexual assault.
  - qubex 9y ago
    I'm sorry they voted you down. I absolutely agree with you.