> >90% of people (not just beginners) will generally fuck it up somehow and end up living with a really weird app tbh I've seen this plenty of times regardless

> >90% of people (not just beginners) will generally fuck it up somehow and end up living with a really weird app tbh I've seen this plenty of times regardless of whichever framework people choose. At least with Flask the original developer sometimes gets a twinge of 'hmm this seems like a lot of work & might be a mistake'; Django smooths it over so you end up with cached property counts for things which are trivially computable from the DB (+the associated invalidation bugs).