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Sam Altman and Y Combinator Bullying Accusations
- relics443 9y agoFunny how perception works. I perceive Sam Altman to be a borderline far leftist. I guess it makes sense that those to the far left of him would see things differently.
- kwellington 9y agoDifference is he's an authoritarian leftist. Social contacts and all.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- s73ver 9y agoIt's one of those things where it depends on what topic. He's probably all for marriage equality, because it doesn't affect him. Talk about his incubator, and suddenly he's Donald Trump. It's similar to a number of left-leaning journalism outlets, and unions. Most of them did, and continue to support unions quite a bit. But when their own reporters unionized, they pulled every classic trick in the book to stop them.
- vertex-four 9y agoSam Altman is as liberal as liberals get. Not a leftist by any means.
- gavriel 9y agoSam Altman is the epitome of white privilege. He has zero achievements and still became the president of YC.
- Judgmentality 9y agoHe founded a company that sold for tens of millions of dollars. Even though many (including himself) consider it a failure, not many people have done that. And in the process he demonstrated his worth to Paul Graham, who decided he'd make the best successor. How do you think the president of Y Combinator should be determined if not by the original creator?
- millisecond 9y agoTalk to Sam alone sometime for 5 minutes and you'll get it. Super smart dude and it comes through immediately.
- jaggederest 9y agoThat's pretty much the justification for cronyism, racism, and nepotism in promoting sociopaths to positions of power. Appeal to "superficial charm" isn't the greatest argument here.
- bigiain 9y agoI know quite a few super smart sociopathic jerks - I wouldn't let any of them be in charge of a company that I'd built my reputation on.
- DigitalSea 9y agoReplace "Sam" with the name of anyone in a position of power and you could say the same about anyone. Case in point: >Talk to Donald Trump alone sometime for 5 minutes and you'll get it. Super smart dude and it comes through immediately. Being smart does not make you a nice person, nor does it mean you're incapable of prejudice or harm against anyone. Travis Kalanicks supporters were saying the same things about how nice he was as well, but the allegations of how Uber was being run and the culture of harassment against women reached fever pitch and eventually led to him stepping down from the company. Taking the allegations Sam was being motivated by the fact Pando is owned by a woman out of the equation, Altman's actions are still pretty damning. The part about having unsubstantiated information from a former employee on Pando is not how someone in his position should act at all.
- m52go 9y agoWhat does being white have to do with this?
- falsedan 9y agoWhite privilege is a systemic problem, especially in tech & finance, which little is being done to address. It's worth calling out whenever it appears, to avoid normalising it.
- moocowtruck 9y agowhy not just call problem people problems and leave color and privilege out of it?
- sidlls 9y agoBecause color and privilege are foundational to and inextricably linked with the problems of racism, sexism, and others.
- m52go 9y agoThis point would have merit if there was any reason to think Y Combinator systematically gives white men preference over others to run its organization. There's no evidence I've seen to suggest that. While women and minorities should be treated fairly, so should white people...they deserve to succeed too. Assuming white privilege is responsible for every white person's success (and incriminating them for it) is just as backward as traditional racism.
- sidlls 9y agoThis isn't all or nothing. Your use of "every white person's success" is just contentious: nobody suggested what you argue against. On the other hand, suggesting white privilege is absent (different from completely responsible for) any white person's success is just wrong: that privilege is systemic and gives every white person an advantage, even if it isn't totally responsible for any white person's success. Replace "white" with "male" for a similar argument regarding gender.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mej10 9y agoWhats up with the name calling and body shaming?
- friedman23 9y agoThis article is literally nothing except pando whining about being banned from ycombinator events.
- sidlls 9y agoNo. While it's not necessarily something I'd put up there with Uber's treatment of its employees it definitely doesn't reflect well on Altman. It's also a (privileged, white) male bullying various women. Now, that may not indicate sexism (bullying isn't inherently sexist), but given the climate and extra scrutiny around this industry it's easy to understand how it could be interpreted as such. Also I generally think it's best to listen to women when they say that treatment seems like harassment, sexism, and so forth. It may not seem like it to a man, but so what? Given our history and current culture that doesn't mean anything.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nailer 9y agoPando is trying to present action against Pando as being because Pando reveals sexism amongst VCs (which it does) rather than because it's a muckraking gossip mag (which it is too). It's possible to dislike Pando without supporting sexism and there are many reasons why one would do so.
- Gargoyle 9y agoPartially. And partially over-the-top tone. But it's also got a very troubling incident of Altman publicly stating he's got "some interesting information" on Pando, implying of course that it's negative. Without bothering to say what it is. That's a hard no-no, and should be called out as a bullshit approach whoever does it.
- xenadu02 9y agoThere is certainly hyperbole in the article but there is also a good point. Why is Sam dropping smears? If he really thought there might be something worth "investigating" he would keep quiet and investigate. It's a total dick power move (and transparent bullshit) designed to undercut someone you don't like by spreading innuendo and veiled accusations without actually making the accusation. The adult thing to do is say "oops, sorry. donation to charity made" and move on with your life. That's a good deed no matter how you slice it plus good PR in general. There is no win to be had here because Sam is punching down. I'm honestly disappointed. The faux-apology just makes it worse. Much respect to you Sam, but this is childish behavior. We know it, you know it. (I say this knowing I've doubled-down and done stuff like this in the past and regretted it every time)
- mindcrime 9y agoSo some 3rd rate blog got banned from attending YC demo days and now they want to try and weave this into the currently-hot narrative regarding harassment against women? This strikes me as just a lame attempt at news-jacking.
- everdayimhustln 9y agoThis happens all the time. Twitter-dramatic people rachet up their Karpman Drama Triangle histrionics against celebrities to try to get something juicy to up their social media currency. Sama deals with this every day.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- babesh 9y agoI don’t think it was sexist. It’s just standard power based behavior. Isn’t specific to tech. Have seen that sort of behavior from people in power of all genders and ethnicities in the Valley for as long as I’ve been in the industry. Examples: - It doesn’t matter what’s in the contract. I have a lot more money than you and can sue you to oblivion. - Tell me what to say to his boss when the boss asks me a question. - If you have two people and one has more seniority and the other is better, who do you give the better assignment to? The one with seniority. That’s why I’m leaving.
- fapjacks 9y agoI completely agree, but (sort of incidentally) I do wish that there was some recognition that the "tech industry" is not one specific group of people. Even at the most basic level, there are the hackers, and then there are the MBAs that flocked in when the money started flowing. Two completely disparate subcultures that are lumped in together under one banner, and not only lumped together that way by outsiders, but by "the tech industry" itself.
- jaggederest 9y agoCertainly not. There's a reason people say power corrupts. Nothing especially to do with intersectionality - it's the power, not who is using it on whom. The amoral use of power to further your own agenda is where excessive political, social, economic, or religious authority always ends. It's classically antisocial behavior. Machiavellianism, psychopathy, sadism, and narcissism.
- iamshs 9y agoNot much spice in this gravy. Could not understand the story despite reading it twice. Pando is just trying to make hay while the sun shines, or as we say in India, "Behti ganga mein hath dhona".
- Judgmentality 9y agoWhile I agree this article is pretty bad, why is it disappearing from the front page so fast? It's being upvoted pretty quickly. @dang is adamant that they don't punish articles that are negative towards Y Combinator, and I don't see it as flagged yet, so I'm curious.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y agoI see it as flagged, at least currently.
- Judgmentality 9y agoIt is now. The difference a minute makes :)
- mindcrime 9y agoI think you only see the [flagged] token once a story hits a certain threshold of flags. I know there's been at least one flag, since I flagged it myself. shrug
- dang 9y agoUsers flagged it. Moderators haven't touched it. (Edit: actually didn't see it until someone asked me about a complaint they saw on Twitter.)
- projectileboy 9y agoIt's hardly worth even commenting on this, except to say that it's dishonest to conflate how the tech industry treats women with how YC treats journalists who write bad stuff about them. Every organization does its best to control how people perceive it, for better or for worse. There are real problems for women in tech; Pando getting on YC's bad side is hardly one of them.
- falsedan 9y agoThe article makes the point that the founder of the site was a woman and tries to show the parallel between systemic harassment of women in VC-backed companies, and the isolated harassment of Sarah's site by Sam.
- scarya 9y agoCan someone explain to me why this was flagged?
- wheelerwj 9y agobecause its a boring political story that has no technical relevance.
- xenadu02 9y agoThere's also optics. Flagging the story just feeds the narrative that YC is "hiding" something regardless of the truth. When you see a PR train coming down the tracks... get out of the way. You can stand there and yell at it all you like but it won't matter. When you get to a certain point in life (high office, large influence, and/or lots of money) there is nowhere to punch but down. That means you have to stop throwing punches or you have to accept the hate. Those are your two options. On the plus side you're still really rich and/or powerful so it isn't exactly a bad deal.
- dang 9y agoAgreed in general, and we make a careful point of moderating HN less, not more, when an article is critical of YC or YC startups, although 'less' doesn't mean 'zero' (one learns about loopholes the hard way when running a web forum). But it's a moot point in this case; HN users have flagged the story overwhelmingly and the comments make it clear why. Since the community response is so clear, I think it's probably sufficient for us to simply explain that moderators haven't intervened in any way.
- wheelerwj 9y agoeveryone in tech knows what pando is. but this needs to be unflagged so that stories of conspiracies and hiding the truth won't pop up. put it back and let it die on its own.
- dang 9y agoUsers flagged it. We sometimes override that when an article is unusually substantive, but in this case the community verdict is so clear that doing so would just make things worse.
- frik 9y agoIf only half of the story is true, it's still mind blowing what's going on. Very unfortunately that PG isn't involved anymore. That Sam has doubts about Adam Penenberg integrity speaks volumes for itself - Stephen Glass fraud investigator fame - there is even a movie about the case. No wonder the HN got flagged, uneasy story, it's the user.
- lettergram 9y agoHonestly, this reads doesn't read like a piece of "journalism"... It's closer to a Facebook rant. Clearly, Pando staff don't like Sam Altman, and I think this whole article is pretty unprofessional. > How is this the culture that we built? How did we end up creating an industry in which lying pipsqueaks like Sam Altman are heralded as “thought leaders” and “visionaries”? I don't know if Sam Altman is a visionary, or thought leader. I do know that in this case, he kept it way more professional, and the evidence Pando (or Sam for that matter) bring to the table adds nothing to the conversation. > What the Sam Altmans care about is that three years ago a website run by a woman wrote a mean thing about one of their portfolio companies. In the Sams’ world, there must be consequences for that kind of insubordination. She must be brought to heel. To be blunt, none of this on Sam's part seems sexist (at least I don't see it). Perhaps I missed something, but this seems to be using the "women in tech have wronged" craze to rationalize some way the Pando staff feel wronged. I grant you, many women (and probably a whole lot of others, minorities, non-citizens, etc.) have been wronged, but this... this just detracts from the discussion. Pando, the New York Times, or anyone can't just attack people for being in the positions they are in. I can't blame Altman for being in his position, he's there, all we can do at this point is try to work together to improve the situation. To do that, petty stuff like this needs to stop. Occasionally, I'm sure we will need to remove people causing problems, like a CEO who enables sexual harassment, or a board member who says inappropriate things. Hopefully, this wont happen too often, as I refuse to believe the vast majority aren't decent human beings. That being said, in this case, it seems like Pando is the problem -_-
- perseusprime11 9y agoNot to take this on a tangent but wait till female interns at VC firms decide to speak up. They put up with abnormal requests for attending parties at abnormal hours.
- lettergram 9y agoTo be fair, I too am invited to parties at abnormal hours, or out to bars (and I don't drink), or to the water parks, etc. I think it's important we keep things in perspective and review every case as a unique occurrence (or every person at least). There's a danger in generalizing. There is obvious sexism (perhaps a ton of it), but I also think it's not really helpful to just assume certain requests are sexist. Especially, in the example you just gave, where female interns "abnormal requests for attending parties at abnormal hours". I'm sure it happens all the time, there may even be a small sexual component (just like every other industry), however it may be just as sexist not to invite them... Unless it impacts their career, or in some disenfranchises them, I really don't see it as an issue. I can tell you that I turn down literally every event outside of work that isn't 9am - 5pm. It may impact my career (although I don' think so), I think people just feel pressured about it. I can't tell you how pressured I felt turning down our teams offsite to a ski resort. I turned it down because it wasn't in my job description, but also because of the following: (a) I like to spend time with my family (b) I don't like skiing (c) All the women had their own rooms, while the guys had to share (d) I have a fulfilling life outside of work The reason I bring that up, is a lot of people may look at that situation as sexist. It actually did disenfranchise me to not go. Literally, I was told "it's required, you have to go", I still said no. Personally, I view it as a difference in lifestyles and expectations. I'm not offended that they made me feel uncomfortable with the offer (idk if I should, maybe...), I however am upset that I lost something out of it. I think that's what we need to fix, fix the expectation that work leaves the office. It's fairly easy to not make people feel uncomfortable if the expectation that 9am - 5pm it's a "safe space", anything that happens there you put your work hat on and work appropriately. Then when the shift ends, your free to put your fun hat on. Don't mix the two, and you'll have a hell of a lot less problems. Even with your example, that wouldn't occur.
- rl3 9y ago>Unfortunately, whilst all this was playing out, at least one Valley bro apparently decided that a little bit too much progress was being made. That at least one woman too many was speaking out. So the article opens with the implication that Altman is just another 'bro' complicit in sexually harassing women. It then hammers on the Bilderberg part like it was somehow relevant. Furthermore it proceeds to make a tortured comparison between Altman and Trump, even going so far as to call him "some kind of Alt Right Roger Rabbit". Presumably this is because their readership is so sophisticated as to otherwise not understand such alleged impropriety unless framed in context of Trump. Never mind the fact that Altman is openly gay and harbors a fervent dislike of Trump. But hey—when your job involves passing off third-rate trash as journalism, then I suppose lying by omission to suit an agenda is simply par for the course. >Which brings me to the moral of the story, where my outrage at seeing Sarah and Pando smeared by a unremitting scumbag like Sam Altman butts against my own guilt at being part of the social group – well-off white dudes in Silicon Valley – who are almost exclusively responsible for all of the shit we’ve witnessed/read about these past few days. Ah yes, the moral of the story. This roughly translates as: "My boss is in a spat with this guy, and I like my paycheck, so I'm going to call him nasty names and state that I feel guilty about being born with the same skin color as him. Then, I'm going to blame other people with the same skin color as me for the world's ills so I can feel better about myself."
- s73ver 9y ago“Never mind the fact that Altman is openly gay and harbors a fervent dislike of Trump. But hey—when your job involves passing off third-rate trash as journalism, then I suppose lying by omission to suit an agenda is simply par for the course.” Sure, but he did the same thing Trump has been doing for the past year. That’s what the comparison is.
- rl3 9y agoMore like Pando is saying he did. For all we know there's more nuance somewhere that they're omitting. It's easy to cherry-pick the most flattering aspects of a Twitter feud and present it as a complete accounting of events. Regardless, I still fail to see why they felt the need to make the comparison. It just struck me as a cheap way to vilify him with their readers. If Altman did what they said he did, then of course that's bad. However, I can't help but notice he isn't the one penning hate-filled screeds here.
- ithought 9y agoThey're conflating two different things. Criticism is fine and should be encouraged. Hysterical ranty responses with false claims is an enormous problem. This phenomenon that we can't criticize actions without being falsely accused of being an "x hater" is dangerous. What Pando has done is dishonest.
- dandare 9y ago> ..."white dudes"... ..."white bros"... Why the fck could we not leave the race out of it? Nobody would dare to speak about race unless they are white - in which case it is used as a slur?
- nojvek 9y agoI thought the same. What it sama was an African female. Would you use the same words? That's fucked up.
- thebiglebrewski 9y agohttps://youtu.be/E5ONTXHS2mM?t=38s https://youtu.be/E5ONTXHS2mM?t=38s pando pando pando pando pando
- michaelrhansen 9y agoNot sure this has anything to do with gender or race. Sounds like a disagreement on facts of a story. Seems like stirring controversy to takeover an important conversation and get clicks. Kind of like Fox News or CNN.
- Grustaf 9y agoThere is no indication, even if you believe this post, that Altman did anything because of "sexism". At most he's generally vengeful. In fact the only sexism (and racism) in this story comes from Pando.
- nojvek 9y agoI follow Pando and this feels like an awfully written piece looking to just pin a blame. I hope by just throwing sexual harassment claims Without serious facts they don't ruin trust and credibility.
- madmax108 9y ago>>> "We didn’t tolerate it from the most valuable private company in Silicon Valley history and we sure as aren’t going to take it from the substitute teacher of Paul Graham’s bro creche." Touche. I disagree, but touche nonetheless!