> "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required" OK so I should have said "Is a required course in a large number of US universities." > a

> "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required" OK so I should have said "Is a required course in a large number of US universities." > and the only reason why ABET is involved in this discussion is marketing, as some people really want to pretend that programming is just another engineering discipline, when really it is a craft, and others on the certifying side really want those fees. Students want some assurances that their department has an external body maintaining quality standards. For large research universities, less of a problem, "Do findings from the department make front page news?" is a pretty good qualifier. I had a friend of mine in a non-ABET program who was upset that his degree didn't even require math beyond basic trig, arguments about calculus in CS programs aside, hiring companies knew that CS degrees from my friend's University didn't come with the same level of math and science as CS degrees from other universities. Of course this entire thread is about the lack of ethics courses in CS programs, and ABET requires ethics in the curriculum. At some point ABET can't be called completely useless, since they are imposing onto CS programs a class that people seem to generally agree should be present.