7 ms·

If you use ubuntu, install the kernel from here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.12/ http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.12/

hobozilla 9y ago
Thank you, exactly what I needed.
blfr 9y ago
I have always been tempted. Is there any reason not to?
- Insanity 9y ago
  I wonder this as well. Might a kernel update not break some applications or make the system less stable?
  - eat_veggies 9y ago
    It's probably safe since rolling release distributions upgrade just the kernel and work fine. I'd watch out for the graphics drivers though--sometimes you need to recompile them with the new kernel headers or just use the DKMS version.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    Linus is pretty big on kernel updates not breaking userland it's been the topic of several flames. Not that that's perfect or a guarantee but it is a priority among the devs.
    - jug 9y ago
      Yes, he hates that with a vengeance, here's the classic thread. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75
      - dotancohen 9y ago
        That's actually a bit recent to be "classic" but it is a great example.
  - mamon 9y ago
    I've bought new laptop recently with Kaby Lake processor and put Ubuntu 17.04 on it, so the kernel upgrade was kind of necessity. No adverse effects observed, and on the plus side: somewhat better battery life, Asus USB-C docking station working correctly, including Gigabit Ethernet port, resolved issues with sleep/resume.
    - johnbellone 9y ago
      What laptop if you don't mind me asking?
      - mamon 9y ago
        Dell XPS 13 (9360). I know, they sell those with Ubuntu pre-installed, but they are hard to come by in my country, so i bought Win10 version and installed Linux myself
  - dom0 9y ago
    Linus Torvalds breaks into a childish tantrum of (edit: correction: swearing rants are technically coherent), public swearing at people whenever anyone anywhere in Linux kernel development breaks any userspace app. As a consequence, userspace regressions are rare. (Might contain traces of hyperbole—still; Linus' behaviour is largely unacceptable nonetheless)
    - wtallis 9y ago
      Linus is very well known for his rants, but you've definitely mischaracterized them. He's seldom incoherent, and the ones that are vulgar enough to make for juicy sensationalized "news" are only ever directed at contributors who are experienced enough to know better than to break userspace or something badly wrong like that. His more level-headed corrections of well-meaning inexperienced developers don't make the news.
      - dom0 9y ago
        "only ever directed at contributors who are experienced enough". That's not strictly true, see e.g. https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2017-February/133837.html https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2017-Februa...
        saghm 9y ago
        Props to Daniel for defending the contributor, as I'm guessing they wouldn't feel comfortable arguing back with Linus.
        icebraining 9y ago
        To me it reads like redirecting blame to the contributor by appearing to "defend" him. Linus was obviously replying (and chastising) the person who sent him the code, and who was supposed to review it beforehand, not the original author.
        dullgiulio 9y ago
  - shp0ngle 9y ago
    It might make some hardware unusable. If you are relying on some hacks or proprietary drivers for wifi support or GPU support (as is normal in Linux world), it might break.
  - cmurf 9y ago
    It can happen. There are a bunch of bots that do regression tests, Fedora's Rawhide provides daily debug builds of the kernel with merges in-between the rc's, so there are are some real humans also using the kernel through its development. If you check the 4.11.1 changelog as an example you can see the kinds of things that can crop up. Fedora current releases tend to rebase around x.y.2. So you could use that as a way to weigh your kernel conservatism.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    So maybe a stupid question for me - but since all the answers here say that new kernels generally don't break userland, then... what do I get from an update? Security fixes? Faster syscalls? Because otherwise I can't think of changes that would affect me in any way without updating rest of the userland.
    - Santosh83 9y ago
      Major distros backport security fixes. I'd say improved hardware support is 90% the reason to upgrade to a new kernel. Algorithmic improvements (like bfq) and new syscalls/subsystems are infrequent and one might not be able to make use of them immediately unless libs/userland adapt quickly.
  - agnivade 9y ago
    I have been consistently updating linux kernels on by ubuntu machines. Apart from docker images going awry. I haven't experienced any other issue.
- old-gregg 9y ago
  Not Ubuntu, but Debian: have been running Debian stable with unstable kernels for a while. Never saw any issues. Application packages generally do not have hard dependencies on specific kernel versions but, as always, YMMV.
  - 0xFFFE 9y ago
    I do the same, haven't had any issues so far.
- chrisper 9y ago
  Well, sometimes there could be a bug lingering around. But that could be the case with any software. Probably just keep the old kernel around as well. Just in Case.
- valarauca1 9y ago
  No, you generally should. Those Linus tirades about We Dont Break Userland are why. The only way application interact with the kernel is via SystemCalls, which once they go public are -never- retracted, and never significantly change. This is why the kernel has system calls like 'mlock' and 'mlock2', because the first call ended up being incorrect but YOU CANT TURN BACK NOW! Or a better example `stat`, `stat64`, and `statx`
  - legulere 9y ago
    Drivers might break though.
  - johnbellone 9y ago
    I hear what you are saying but I wouldn't say that stat vs stat64 is incorrect or wrong. It is due to 32 vs 64 bit fields inside of the stat struct. But yeah, it all comes down to maintaining ABI and not breaking userland.
  - daurnimator 9y ago
    > The only way application interact with the kernel is via SystemCalls Well yes, but more than the syscall contracts are e.g. the layout of /proc and /sys. Which have broken userspace before.
- dotancohen 9y ago
  > I have always been tempted. Is there any reason not to? There is a small chance that something will break, which is usually either the wifi or graphics drivers on desktop systems. Now let me ask you, is there any _reason_ for you to upgrade? Another poster mentions better laptop battery life but it could easily go the other way on some systems. Are you having trouble with any hardware? Unsupported webcam, etc? If not, then you're encouraged to upgrade the kernel as a learning experience but if your priority is stability and you don't have an evening to risk investing, then you should probably wait for Ubuntu to provide the update.
  - voltagex_ 9y ago
    Marvell mwifiex cards seem to be broken past ~4.9. git.marvell.com is down so I can't check for new firmware, either.
- pizza234 9y ago
  In real world, it may give you zero tanglible improvements (only virtual ones), against a variable amount of maintenance overhead. Aside the obvious manual download and installation, if you use ZFS and Ubuntu LTS for example, it's messy, because the shipped ZFS version won't support the most recent kernel, so you'll have to separately download the ZFS packages from the most recent Ubuntu. This is just an edge case of course. Also, distributions like Ubuntu LTS now provide stable kernel upgrades, so that you're not significantly far from the latest versions (16.04.3 will ship shortly, and will likely have 4.10 or more recent). Ultimately, it really depends on your machine. If you have recent hardware (eg. Skylake), then definitely new versions will bring compatibility (along with updated `linux-firmware` package). I've been using mainline versions for the last years, due to recent hardware, and didn't have any problems (aside the ZFS issue, which made me move to BTRFS).
gigatexal 9y ago
sudo apt add-repo'able? thanks for pointing this out
- _arvin 9y ago
  you can download "ubuntu kernel update utility" (ukuu) for an easier way to install and remove kernels, but you likely won't find a PPA that'll deliver you point releases as they come for the latest mainline
_arvin 9y ago
for anyone needing further instructions, you'll want the generic .deb files for your architecture (not low-latency unless you know what that is): linux-headers-4.12.0-041200_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_all.deb linux-headers-4.12.0-041200-generic_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_amd64.deb linux-image-4.12.0-041200-generic_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_amd64.deb then just $ sudo dpkg -i *.deb in the folder containing the files, and then a reboot, and $ uname -a to verify you're on the correct kernel
- sdca 9y ago
  This lacks linux-tools and thus breaks cpu frequency and cpu governor management tools (cpupower, TLP, etc). For reasons unknown Fedora's RawhideKernelNodebug repo includes that package but Ubuntu's doesn't :)
jhoechtl 9y ago
And don't forget about the updated firmware drivers https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/all/linux-firmware/download https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/all/linux-firmware/downlo... When going latest kernel it makes sense to have the latest firmware otherwise certain kernel features wont work.
alien_ 9y ago
Shameless plug: I wrote a small tool which allows users to update the kernel to the latest version or rc build, since this is not really a ppa exposed as apt repository: https://github.com/cristim/kernel-update https://github.com/cristim/kernel-update

hobozilla 9y ago

Thank you, exactly what I needed.

blfr 9y ago

I have always been tempted. Is there any reason not to?

Insanity 9y ago
I wonder this as well. Might a kernel update not break some applications or make the system less stable?
- eat_veggies 9y ago
  It's probably safe since rolling release distributions upgrade just the kernel and work fine. I'd watch out for the graphics drivers though--sometimes you need to recompile them with the new kernel headers or just use the DKMS version.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  Linus is pretty big on kernel updates not breaking userland it's been the topic of several flames. Not that that's perfect or a guarantee but it is a priority among the devs.
  - jug 9y ago
    Yes, he hates that with a vengeance, here's the classic thread. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75
    - dotancohen 9y ago
      That's actually a bit recent to be "classic" but it is a great example.
- mamon 9y ago
  I've bought new laptop recently with Kaby Lake processor and put Ubuntu 17.04 on it, so the kernel upgrade was kind of necessity. No adverse effects observed, and on the plus side: somewhat better battery life, Asus USB-C docking station working correctly, including Gigabit Ethernet port, resolved issues with sleep/resume.
  - johnbellone 9y ago
    What laptop if you don't mind me asking?
    - mamon 9y ago
      Dell XPS 13 (9360). I know, they sell those with Ubuntu pre-installed, but they are hard to come by in my country, so i bought Win10 version and installed Linux myself
- dom0 9y ago
  Linus Torvalds breaks into a childish tantrum of (edit: correction: swearing rants are technically coherent), public swearing at people whenever anyone anywhere in Linux kernel development breaks any userspace app. As a consequence, userspace regressions are rare. (Might contain traces of hyperbole—still; Linus' behaviour is largely unacceptable nonetheless)
  - wtallis 9y ago
    Linus is very well known for his rants, but you've definitely mischaracterized them. He's seldom incoherent, and the ones that are vulgar enough to make for juicy sensationalized "news" are only ever directed at contributors who are experienced enough to know better than to break userspace or something badly wrong like that. His more level-headed corrections of well-meaning inexperienced developers don't make the news.
    - dom0 9y ago
      "only ever directed at contributors who are experienced enough". That's not strictly true, see e.g. https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2017-February/133837.html https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2017-Februa...
      - saghm 9y ago
        Props to Daniel for defending the contributor, as I'm guessing they wouldn't feel comfortable arguing back with Linus.
        icebraining 9y ago
        To me it reads like redirecting blame to the contributor by appearing to "defend" him. Linus was obviously replying (and chastising) the person who sent him the code, and who was supposed to review it beforehand, not the original author.
        dullgiulio 9y ago
- shp0ngle 9y ago
  It might make some hardware unusable. If you are relying on some hacks or proprietary drivers for wifi support or GPU support (as is normal in Linux world), it might break.
- cmurf 9y ago
  It can happen. There are a bunch of bots that do regression tests, Fedora's Rawhide provides daily debug builds of the kernel with merges in-between the rc's, so there are are some real humans also using the kernel through its development. If you check the 4.11.1 changelog as an example you can see the kinds of things that can crop up. Fedora current releases tend to rebase around x.y.2. So you could use that as a way to weigh your kernel conservatism.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  So maybe a stupid question for me - but since all the answers here say that new kernels generally don't break userland, then... what do I get from an update? Security fixes? Faster syscalls? Because otherwise I can't think of changes that would affect me in any way without updating rest of the userland.
  - Santosh83 9y ago
    Major distros backport security fixes. I'd say improved hardware support is 90% the reason to upgrade to a new kernel. Algorithmic improvements (like bfq) and new syscalls/subsystems are infrequent and one might not be able to make use of them immediately unless libs/userland adapt quickly.
- agnivade 9y ago
  I have been consistently updating linux kernels on by ubuntu machines. Apart from docker images going awry. I haven't experienced any other issue.
old-gregg 9y ago
Not Ubuntu, but Debian: have been running Debian stable with unstable kernels for a while. Never saw any issues. Application packages generally do not have hard dependencies on specific kernel versions but, as always, YMMV.
- 0xFFFE 9y ago
  I do the same, haven't had any issues so far.
chrisper 9y ago
Well, sometimes there could be a bug lingering around. But that could be the case with any software. Probably just keep the old kernel around as well. Just in Case.
valarauca1 9y ago
No, you generally should. Those Linus tirades about We Dont Break Userland are why. The only way application interact with the kernel is via SystemCalls, which once they go public are -never- retracted, and never significantly change. This is why the kernel has system calls like 'mlock' and 'mlock2', because the first call ended up being incorrect but YOU CANT TURN BACK NOW! Or a better example `stat`, `stat64`, and `statx`
- legulere 9y ago
  Drivers might break though.
- johnbellone 9y ago
  I hear what you are saying but I wouldn't say that stat vs stat64 is incorrect or wrong. It is due to 32 vs 64 bit fields inside of the stat struct. But yeah, it all comes down to maintaining ABI and not breaking userland.
- daurnimator 9y ago
  > The only way application interact with the kernel is via SystemCalls Well yes, but more than the syscall contracts are e.g. the layout of /proc and /sys. Which have broken userspace before.
dotancohen 9y ago
> I have always been tempted. Is there any reason not to? There is a small chance that something will break, which is usually either the wifi or graphics drivers on desktop systems. Now let me ask you, is there any _reason_ for you to upgrade? Another poster mentions better laptop battery life but it could easily go the other way on some systems. Are you having trouble with any hardware? Unsupported webcam, etc? If not, then you're encouraged to upgrade the kernel as a learning experience but if your priority is stability and you don't have an evening to risk investing, then you should probably wait for Ubuntu to provide the update.
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  Marvell mwifiex cards seem to be broken past ~4.9. git.marvell.com is down so I can't check for new firmware, either.
pizza234 9y ago
In real world, it may give you zero tanglible improvements (only virtual ones), against a variable amount of maintenance overhead. Aside the obvious manual download and installation, if you use ZFS and Ubuntu LTS for example, it's messy, because the shipped ZFS version won't support the most recent kernel, so you'll have to separately download the ZFS packages from the most recent Ubuntu. This is just an edge case of course. Also, distributions like Ubuntu LTS now provide stable kernel upgrades, so that you're not significantly far from the latest versions (16.04.3 will ship shortly, and will likely have 4.10 or more recent). Ultimately, it really depends on your machine. If you have recent hardware (eg. Skylake), then definitely new versions will bring compatibility (along with updated `linux-firmware` package). I've been using mainline versions for the last years, due to recent hardware, and didn't have any problems (aside the ZFS issue, which made me move to BTRFS).

gigatexal 9y ago

sudo apt add-repo'able? thanks for pointing this out

_arvin 9y ago
you can download "ubuntu kernel update utility" (ukuu) for an easier way to install and remove kernels, but you likely won't find a PPA that'll deliver you point releases as they come for the latest mainline

_arvin 9y ago

for anyone needing further instructions, you'll want the generic .deb files for your architecture (not low-latency unless you know what that is): linux-headers-4.12.0-041200_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_all.deb linux-headers-4.12.0-041200-generic_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_amd64.deb linux-image-4.12.0-041200-generic_4.12.0-041200.201707022031_amd64.deb then just $ sudo dpkg -i *.deb in the folder containing the files, and then a reboot, and $ uname -a to verify you're on the correct kernel

sdca 9y ago
This lacks linux-tools and thus breaks cpu frequency and cpu governor management tools (cpupower, TLP, etc). For reasons unknown Fedora's RawhideKernelNodebug repo includes that package but Ubuntu's doesn't :)

jhoechtl 9y ago

And don't forget about the updated firmware drivers https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/all/linux-firmware/download https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/all/linux-firmware/downlo... When going latest kernel it makes sense to have the latest firmware otherwise certain kernel features wont work.

alien_ 9y ago

Shameless plug: I wrote a small tool which allows users to update the kernel to the latest version or rc build, since this is not really a ppa exposed as apt repository: https://github.com/cristim/kernel-update https://github.com/cristim/kernel-update